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Noted that the other day was Ground Hog Day in the US. (There was a confusing piece on early a.m. TV here which attempted to explain the background to the day. I got the bit about winter lasting six more weeks if a ground hog saw his shadow on this day, but then the piece then got mired down in "Phil" the ground hog being chauffered around NYC. This, thinks the cynical stales, is the reason we got to see it at all. You know, one of those "Only in America" things.) BTW - is this day celebrated nationally and is it a public holiday?? It would've been nice for "our reporter" to have provided some of this sort of fundamental data!!
Anyway.....
It got me to wondering - Is there any other "Something-or-other Day" in the English speaking world where the "something-or-other" is an animal?? Perhaps it IS a case of only in America? Certainly not in Oz.
stales
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This is pretty interesting, Sweetie. Found at Wilstar.com.
==========================================================
How Did the Groundhog Get a Day of His Own?
The lowly groundhog, often called a woodchuck, is the only mammal to have a day named in his honor. The groundhog's day is February 2. Granted, it’s not a federal holiday; nobody gets off work. But still, to have a day named after you is quite a feat.
How did the groundhog come by this honor?
It stems from the ancient belief that hibernating creatures were able to predict the arrival of springtime by their emergence.
The German immigrants known as Pennsylvania Dutch brought the tradition to America in the 18th century. They had once regarded the badger as the winter-spring barometer. But the job was reassigned to the groundhog after importing their Candlemas traditions to the U.S. Candlemas commemorates the ritual purification of Mary, 40 days after the birth of Jesus.
Candlemas is one of the four "cross-quarters" of the year, occurring half way between the first day of winter and the first day of spring. Traditionally, it was believed that if Candlemas was sunny, the remaining six weeks of winter would be stormy and cold. But if it rained or snowed on Candlemas, the rest of the winter would be mild. If an animal "sees its shadow," it must be sunny, so more wintry weather is predicted:
If Candlemas be fair and bright,
Winter has another flight.
If Candlemas brings clouds and rain,
Winter will not come again.
The groundhog and badger were not the only animals that have been used to predict spring. Other Europeans used the bear or hedgehog--but in any case the honor belonged to a creature that hibernated. Its emergence symbolized the imminent arrival of spring.
Traditionally, the groundhog is supposed to awaken on February 2, Groundhog Day, and come up out of his burrow. If he sees his shadow, he will return to the burrow for six more weeks of winter. If he doesn’t see his shadow, he remains outside and starts his year, because he knows that spring has arrived early.
In the U.S., the “official” groundhog is kept in Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania. Every February 2, amid a raucous celebration early in the morning, “Punxsutawney Phil” as the groundhog is called, is pulled from his den by his keepers, who are dressed in tuxedos. Phil then whispers his weather prediction into the ear of his keeper, who then announces it to the anxiously-awaiting crowd.
Of course, this is for show. It’s a fun celebration and a great tradition. But Phil's keepers secretly decide upon the "forecast" in advance of the groundhog's arousal.
Besides, spring always arrives on or near March 21, so whether the groundhog decides to return to his den or remain above ground, the sad fact is spring will always have to wait at least six more weeks.
Copyright © 2001 by Jerry Wilson. Get permission to reprint this article.
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Copyright © 2001 by Jerry Wilson. Get permission to reprint this article. Didja get permission, Jackie?  (nice bit o' research there, I learned a lot from it) “Punxsutawney* Phil”Try saying that fast three times in a row, stales  addendum: Some regions in the US now have their own groundhogs. The one in Georgia is called "General Lee" (I know, I know...)----- *Æenigma: puny
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journeyman
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Try saying that fast three times in a row, stalesI think I'd pay to hear him say it once! Note - the Pennsylvania Dutch name for the gound hog is "grund sau." (Brought to you by the Department of Useless and Redundant Information.)
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Folks, in spite of having followed this thread with interest, Groundhog Day is one American tradition I completely and utterly fail to understand the purpose of. Not a criticism, just an observation. Hey Maxie, we gotta get us one of them things! How about Possum Day?
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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enthusiast
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I was astonished in reading the post about Candlemas ( what is exactly "mas"?), since I was thinking about
a saying - in a very strict dialect
La Madonna Candelora
dell'inverno semo fora
ma se piove o tira vento
dell'inverno semo drento.
(The day of ) the Virgin Mary - (queen of ) the candles - or bringing candles ( February, 2)
we are out of the winter,
but if it rains or there is wind
we are in (the middle of ) the winter.
I knew about Ground-hog day just from a movie with Bill Murray and...I don't remember, maybe Andie Mc Dowell?
Ciao
Emanuela
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How about Possum Day?Well, of course there has always been Phascologale (or Phascogale) Phriday, which is Friday the 13th of whatever, whenever it happens, here in Oz. Or don't you celebrate that in the Shaky Isles? lusy 
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CapK suggested how about Possum Day?Nah - what about Alpine weta day? I've long been fascinated byt the thought that this not so little critter quite literally freezes then thaws with the changing seasons - much tougher than those wimpy hibernators!
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Pooh-Bah
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>I knew about Ground-hog day just from a movie with Bill Murray and...I don't remember, maybe Andie Mc Dowell? Yes it was Andie McDowell. According to the site below the turn out for the event has grown dramatically since the film was made, even though they changed the location in the film. "Columbia Pictures decided to film the movie in a location more accessible to a major metropolitan center. The highways in and around Punxsutawney were few, so Woodstock, Illinois was chosen as the site. Unfortunately, Woodstock's landscape doesn't have Pennsylvania's scenic rolling hills. Nevertheless, adjustments were made for the production. The actual Gobbler's Knob is a wooded hill with a beautiful view; the Gobbler's Knob in the movie is moved to the town square. The Punxsutawney Gobbler's Knob was recreated to scale in Woodstock's town square based on detailed notes and videos the crew made on it's visit to Punxsutawney." "In 1997, there were 35,000 visitors in Punxsutawney, five times the Jefferson County town's 6,700 population." http://www.stormfax.com/ghogday.htm#Movie
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In reply to:
Candlemas is one of the four "cross-quarters" of the year, occurring half way between the first day of winter and the first day of spring.
The other cross quarter days are May Day, mid Summer (as in the play) and Halloween. all four days are important days on the Irish (pagan) calendar. Feb 1st is "birth of spring"-- (hello Faldage) and the beginning of Lambing--
As the dark ages descended on Europe, the irish got religion– a couple of hundred years latter, as they brought Christianity back to europe-- they brought back all the pagan influences, too.
So just as Easter and Christmas are "timed" to old pagan roman holidays-- so too, the cross quarter days are timed to Irish pagan holidays.
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Pooh-Bah
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I don't see that Groundhog day is any worse than the other days associated with weather:
St Swithin's Day - 15th July
St Swithin's day, if thou dost rain,
For forty days it will remain;
St Swithin's day, if thou be fair,
For forty days will rain nae mair.
Sts. Gervasius and Protasius - 8th June
Apparently there is a similar legend attached to this saints day in France, perhaps Bel knows if it celebrated in Quebec?
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Well, not midsummer if you mean what we normally call midsummer on or about June 22 (hello, Helen).
If you do a count of the days from equinox to solstice you will find that the days normally associated with the Christian celebrations, Mayday and All Saints' Day* to be as much as a week off. The dating of the winter to spring cross quarter day is the closest, being sunset Feb 3rd to sunset Feb 4th this year. It has been my theory that this discrepancy is due to the fact that the Christian calendar was slowly losing synch with the solar year because of Julius Caesar's lack of precision in assigning leap years to every fourth year with no exceptions. The amount that the cross quarter days are off from reality would be a measure of the date that the Pagan holiday was pegged to the Christian calendar. Unfortunately I have not been able to get accurate information as to the dates that these connections were made and it is also confused by the fact that the quarter days were originally normalized, at least in the Roman calendar, to the 25th.
*The summer to fall cross quarter day is not celebrated by any "official" holiday. There are some harvest festival celebrated around that time, but, aside from a Scottish bank holiday, nothing as universal as the other cross quarter days.
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No, mid summer is not in June--It is August 1st, Lughansa (as in the play, Dancing at Lughansa)
All four cross days (Feb 1/May 1, Aug 1 Nov 1) are Irish year markers-- Birth of Spring, Birth of summer, mid summer, and death of summer(and year)-- and all 4 are associated with the crossing over of spirits to from the other world to this world-- On Halloween, all the souls of everyone who has died in the past year, must leave this world for the other world--All of the other holidays are associated with the gods coming to earth-- gateways opening as it were-- between this world and the other world. and mystical messages (like forecasting weather!)
Lughansa was still celebrated in Ireland in the 30's-- Lugh was one of the pagan gods of ireland.
--my mother was displeased that i was born May first, but one of my aunts, (Nov 1st) always said we were both blessed with second site being born on such important holidays!
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I agree that the middle of summer as we count summer would be early in August, but the days traditionally known as midwinter and midsummer are the days of the solstices. The Old Way considered the seasons to change on the cross quarter days. Lughnasadh was considered, in many cultures, to be the date of the death of the King and his supplanting by his son.
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The only "non-commercial, non-traditional" day we celebrate is St-John the Baptist day (June 24th), which, over the years has gone from being a religious celebration to a celebration of uniqueness of the Québec people.
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veteran
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In reply to:
what is exactly "mas"?
A suffix, shortened from "mass", as in Christmas = Christ mass, or the feast day of Christ. There is also the somewhat archaic Martinmas = Martin mass, or St. Martin's feast day (Nov. 11, I believe -- it's not a red letter day in the U.S.) So Candlemas = candle mass, the feast day on which candles are blessed for the coming year, actually the Feast of the Purification of the Blessed Virgin Mary, or The Feast of the Presentation of Our Lord in the Temple (it has been called by both names).
And before you ask, a red-letter day is a major church holiday. It comes from the way the church Kalendar was printed in missals and prayerbooks. The major feasts were printed, like the rubrics, in red, the others in black; hence, a major feast was often referred to as a red-letter day. A rubric, by the way, is a directional note concerning what is to be done in, before, or after a ceremony or rite, and is printed in red rather than black to indicate it is not part of the text of the rite.
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And St Michaelmas-- the date is forgotten, but there is a variety of asters called "st michaelmas daisy's"
the feast of St Michael is September 26th (or is it 24th?) Lets say end of September-- just when asters are begining to bloom anyway.
I vaguely remember getting my throat blessed on Candlemas day-- (some patron saint of not choking?) as blessing and invoking protection from Strep throat? It wasn't a Holy day of obligation-- but it was always a formal uniform day-- which meant Blue anklet socks, not knee highs--and chapped skin from the cold on your shins- and going to church and getting your throat blessed.
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I vaguely remember getting my throat blessed on Candlemas day-- (some patron saint of not choking?) as blessing and invoking protection from Strep throat?Patron saint of throat diseases is St. Blaise (there may be others). I googled him and discovered that his day of memorial is Feb. 3 - my birthday! Also the winter to spring cross quarter day this year (feels like there should be a hyphen or two in that phrase, but out of respect for stales, I've abjured). I found this info at the following site, which provides ample evidence that there is a saint for everything ( patron saints against nettle rash, for speleologists, and no less than eight patron saints of tertiaries) : http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/patron00.htm
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>there is a saint for everything...
not quite; there doesn't seem to be one for lexicographers, or verbivores or logophiles. we should start a campaign.
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In reply to:
and no less than eight patron saints of tertiaries
and by tertiaries-- you mean? I looked it up and i'm guessing the idea of filtering water. (froggies do like clean water)
I know the word tertiary as "third" (ordinal?) as"i live on a tertiary street for plowing, and while NY didn't get much snow in yesterdays storm, I was unable to make it to my door, since my street was not plowed when i got home at 7 PM." M-W 10th also talks about a tertiary order of Monks, and of manmals, and of rocks. and there at the very botton of the page has something about water filtation..
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there doesn't seem to be one for lexicographers, or verbivores or logophiles. we should start a campaign
St Muw?
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and no less than eight patron saints of tertiaries
I have no idea what was meant here, I just loved the notion of eight saints for something I'd never heard of as a noun (in regards to water, tertiary treatment is a term used for wastewater treatment - it's the highest standard of treatment, and follows primary and secondary). I'll leave it up to TEd to come up with a pun related to 3/8 of a saint, or some such.
Also, I'd like to proffer an apology - I wrote "less" here, when I am definitely in the "fewer" camp on this particular usage question - my bad.
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= Martin mass, or St. Martin's feast day (Nov. 11, I believe -- it's not a red letter day in the U.S
Thanks, despite having a Catholic heritage on my mother's side, and a certain fondness for the name Martin, I did know that there was a Martinmas. November 11 is still something of a day here, as it Armistice day, commemorating the signing of the Armistice that ended WWI. The phrase, "the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month" has always had nice ring to it, making Armistice Day easy to remember. I suspect that losing so many of its men in someone else's war played a large part in WWI's important role in forging a disctinct sense of self for NZ.
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Damn! There ain't no spell-checker nowhere what will make up for missin' words! Please read the first sentence of my previous post thusly: Thanks, despite having a Catholic heritage on my mother's side, and a certain fondness for the name Martin, I did notknow that there was a Martinmas.   
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enthusiast
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November 11 is still something of a [red-letter] day here, as it is Armistice day, commemorating the signing of the Armistice that ended WWI.
Ditto here of course, plus for rememberances of a different sort, as it was on that day in 1975 that the Queen (of England)'s "representative", Governor-General Sir John Kerr, invoked still-disputed constitutional rights to sack the popularly-elected Prime Minister Gough (pronounced Goff) Whitlam, and installed the leader of the opposition as caretaker prime minister. Several times over the ensuing years I've seen that great piece of historical footage: Gough on the steps of Parliament House, towering over the little bureaucrat who made the official announcement, booming his famous words "Well might they say 'God Save the Queen', because nothing will save the Governor-General."
And Max, re WW1's role in instilling a sense of nationhood for NZ, and Australia, the emotions still aroused by the acronym (yes, it is one) "ANZAC" and the Anzac Day commemoration (25 April) are ample testament to that.
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"Groundhog Day is one American tradition I completely and utterly fail to understand"
I'm with you Capital Kiwi. It is, apparently, a bit of whimsy which persists for no reason other than the beginning of February doesn't have anything else going on, and the papers have to write about something. I've never seen anyone do anything about Groundhog Day but say, "Oh. Today is Groundhog Day."
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there doesn't seem to be one for lexicographers, or verbivores or logophiles. we should start a campaign
St Muw?No, no, no, mav! St Wum! When do you want to cannonize him?
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In reply to:
the feast of St Michael is September 26th (or is it 24th?)
Michaelmas is 29th September. I know this because I was born on Michaelmas [what do you mean it's too early to start thinking about prezzies emoticon] and christened in a church dedicated to St. Michael and All Angels, so my parents took the hint and added a Michael to my name.
Bingley
Bingley
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Governor-General Sir John Kerr, invoked still-disputed constitutional rights to sack the popularly-elected Prime Minister Gough Whitlam
It put the frighteners in here, too, and had everyone scrambling for their Constitutional Law books to find out if the NZ Governor-General might be able to do the same thing. But it turned out that ours have absolutely no function except to act as a Head of State. It's beyond me why any country would want to become a republic - Governor-Generals are cheap!
Oz and Zild are like a pair of battling brothers. Slag each other off all the time, put the boot in when no one's looking, steal each other's toys (and pavalovas and race horses), but an external threat still has us back to back ... I don't believe that will change any time soon.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Pooh-Bah
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>and no less than eight patron saints of tertiaries
It looks like the third definition, given by GuruNet may help. Perhaps there is some truth in the "third way"!
n., pl. ter·ti·ar·ies.
1. A tertiary feather.
2. Tertiary. Geology. The Tertiary Period or its system of deposits.
3. Roman Catholic Church. A member of a religious Third Order.
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>It is, apparently, a bit of whimsy which persists for no reason other than the beginning of February doesn't have anything else going on .. I thought that the "silly season" was in the summer.
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The celebration of the true cross-quarter day, the 3rd for the Eve and the 4th for the Day, at least this year, is called GroundFrog Day to avoid confusion with Groundhog Day. The definitive story is:
De GroundFrog come up out de hole an he look aroun
Den he open one eye an he look around some more
Den he open de nother eye
An if de nother eye see the one eye dey gone be 40 days an 40 nights of rain
Or winter
Whichever more convenient.
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re: "Something-or-other Day"
A quick check at bluemountain.com reveals all sorts of days about animals, some from legend, some manufactured by the greeting card industry. For example,
Jan. 20th is Penguin Awareness Day
Jan. 22nd is Answer your Cat's Questions Day
of course there's Feb. 2, Groundhog Day
March 1st is National Pig Day
May 5th is Lobster Race and Oyster Parade Day
June is Adopt a Shelter Cat Day
June 2nd is Yell Fudge at Cobras Day
July 15th is Cow Appreciation Day
August 28th is Race Your Mouse Day
September is Chicken Month
September 22nd is Elephant Appreciation Day
September 23-29th is National Dog Week
October 10-16 is National Wildlife Week
November 18th is Buffalo on the Block Week (300-400 surplus buffalo will be auctioned off in Custer, SD
by the way, April 26th is "Hug an Australian Day." ;-)
There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it
so. WS, Hamlet, II.ii.249
,_,
(O,O)
( )
-"-"------------------------
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I thought that the "silly season" was in the summerNo no, Jo, don't you remember the song? "The Lusty Month of May". Bingley, let me be the first to wish you Happy Birthday 2001. Welcome, Sarah! Yes, I've seen those silly-but-funny "days". And I'll hug any Australian I know, any day I get the chance to!
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sarahgutch noted : May 5th is Lobster Race and Oyster Parade Day
At one time I was part of a group looking into the possibility of starting an event or two that would bring visitors and locals to an event and make a few bucks for the local merchants and help with the downtown revitalization.
(I was one of two newspeople there for the publicity aspects.)
We got pretty excited when one guy suggested a Lobster Race! That is until I checked with the local Fish and Game officer ... seems lobsters can move only when in water! That ended that.
Aloha, wow
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Pooh-Bah
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>GroundFrog Day
Yes, I know it well. I think the film featured Kermit and his co-star Miss Piggy.
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seems lobsters can move only when in water!
Not the lobsters I know. I grew up on the New England coast, and as (cruel) kids we used to set them on the linoleum in the kitchen and watch them scoot around. They moved a bit erratically, and weren't exactly speedsters (and went backwards, as they moved by flicking their tails under them), but if you really, really wanted to have a lobster race you could probably rig something up. But it wouldn't be much fun.
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They moved a bit erratically .... to have a lobster race you could probably rig something up. But it wouldn't be much fun.
Exactly, Hyla, exactly!
Aloha, wow
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re: "by the way, April 26th is "Hug an Australian Day." ;-)"
Hey - They must have known - April 26 is my birthday!! All hugs gratefully received!!!
I wonder if "they" made a mistake - it would be far more appropriate to hug an Aussie the day before, April 25, now observed by a public holiday ("ANZAC Day"). It refers to the day in WW1 when a combined force of Oz and Zild soldiers stormed the Turkish forces holding the cliffs at Gallipoli Cove. Our boys died by the thousand. Pretty tough when the population of the whole country at the time was somewhat more than a million - and considerably less in Zild.
stales
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Wile both sides of the ANZAC combine are quite happy to go to war with each other over who made pav.s first (silly fight really, everybody knows it was the Kiwis), I haven't read anything about the origin of those unarguably Antipodean treasures, to wit, ANZAC biscuits. Since reality tells us that confections very much like modern pavlovas have been made in Vienna for a very long time, ANZAC biscuits appear to be the only uncontestably Australasian confection. Is this so?
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Joined: Sep 2000
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2000
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>...ANZAC biscuits appear to be the only uncontestably Australasian confection. Is this so?
Max, he posts guiltily, as yet another thread finds it way unerringly onto the regional cook-book highway (sorry Anna, but he made me do it!):
I have an idea that we lay claim to the lamington - a cube of sponge (as in sponge-cake) dipped in chocolate icing and then rolled in dessicated coconut. Used to be very popular as a fund-raiser, particularly by girl guides who would hold "lamington drives".
No doubt I'll now find that its invention is disputed.
P.S. A quick google reveals that there is in fact some dispute about both the invention and the etymology (thank goodness I can tie it back in to AWAD with some relevance). Perhaps a relocation over to Recipes and Other Non-language Topics would be in order if anyone wants to pursue this.
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
Perhaps a relocation over to Recipes and Other Non-language Topics would be in order if anyone wants to pursue this.MMMM, lamingtons! Chocolate are my favourite, but strawberry are not bad. I did feel a little guilty posting the original query, but it was more about the etymology of the name for the biscuits - I don't want to know how they're made! I agree that to avoid even the hint of inappropriate digression, any further enquiries shall be posted in the "non-language" topics, even though my query was language-related.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
All hugs gratefully received!!!True to my word: stales, here's a big hug for you; never mind that it's not your birthday yet! Your post was a grim reminder of the horrors of war. May we never have another one, anywhere.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
Lamingtons ... chocolate, smothered in coconut and with whipped cream! Ooooooooo, I'm dribbling on my keyboard. Don't give a damn who invented them. Yes, shift this somewhere else, off the board altogether. There are NO words to describe 'em ... 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
Did you know that there were a whole regiment of Newfoundlanders there too? At that time they were a British colony, not part of Canada. They take their military history very seriously here - that's why my university is called Memorial University. And I recently learned that Memorial Stadium was built by the people of St. John's as a memorial to those who died in the wars...each working person in St. John's contributed 1% of their wages for one year to build the stadium. There are a whole series of streets, just near my house, with these middle eastern sort of names - Suvla, Cairo, Suez - after researching the battles that Newfoundlanders fought at, I now know why.
I think the Newfoundlanders would want you to know that you have something in common - as horrible as it is - a little piece of shared history.
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Joined: Nov 2000
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old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
Bean
Didn't know about the Newfounland connection - many thanks for bringing it to my attention. Will make sure the word is spread this coming Anzac Day.
Newfies hey - would seem therrr ain't no doat aboat it, by golly!!
stales
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OP
old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
"Phascogale" it is.
Marsupial pygmy possums as I recall. Real cuties.
stales
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Joined: Nov 2000
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OP
old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
Re: "...but an external threat still has us back to back."
Right on cuz!
"Dumping" on somebody or some thing (such as the whole K1w1 Nation) is the highest accolade an Ozzie can give. Praising somebody offends our (misguided) sense of manliness.
Watch your back if you aren't an Ozzie and one praises you!!
stales
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OP
old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 866 |
Whaddya mean USED TO BE a fundraiser???
I look forward every year to the fundraisers by the little old ladies at my lapidary club AND a big local bakery (which, incidently, also has Anzac cookies in its catalogue. Being a purist, I can't come at the strawberry lamingtons though!!). It's the only time I get to eat a decent lamington!! Best thing is that they freeze well and can thus be enjoyed weeks/months after the event.
BTW, have never figured out why these fundraisers are referred to as a "Lamington Drive".
Anybody?
stales
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
It was a popular notion that Australia and New Zealand were virtually the only troops at Gallipoli and certainly little is said here about any other troops on the peninsula. Not true at all. The British landed in comfort some time after the Anzacs, had a leisurely time of it for a while and then left. The Newfies came and also had a fairly easy time of it at the beginning, but saw some fairly hot action (on Caribou Hill and at Suvla) before they were withdrawn and sent to the meat grinder on the Western Front where they distinguished themselves in a place where the remarkable was fairly commonplace.
The real point of the Australasian emphasis on Gallipoli is that the Anzac troops landed (in the wrong damned place) under fire and hung on in that state for several months in spite of the fact that it was obvious to everyone that there was absolutely no way they were going to "win". It was the "baptism of fire" effect for the Anzacs (a term often used cavalierly for mundane events, but rarely so well-deserved), that made it so "special". It's not a deliberate attempt to demean or diminish the contribution of troops from other places.
My grandfather was there. He wasn't in the first landings, and he came out of Gallipoli unscathed. He then managed to skate through the next three years on the Western Front without being wounded only to be "mildly" gassed a couple of months before the war ended. He died at 63 of complications from the gassing.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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member
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member
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Well said, indeed, CapK! lusy 
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