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#183581 - 03/13/09 09:50 PM Re: The Ten Commandments [Re: Faldage]
Buffalo Shrdlu Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 7210
Loc: Vermont

> Originally Posted By: God

formerly known as etaoin...

#183582 - 03/13/09 10:53 PM The (613) Commandments [Re: Faldage]
twosleepy Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 876
Loc: western NY
So Fal, where are the other 587?

#183585 - 03/14/09 08:10 AM Re: The (613) Commandments [Re: twosleepy]
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
Oh, I'm sure they're scattered about in Leviticus. You know, stuff like not wearing 50/50 cotton/polyester T shirts, not eating crab rangoon, stuff like that. The ones I posted were the Ten Commandments 2.0, the ones God gave Moses after he broke the first ten.

#183588 - 03/14/09 09:19 AM Re: The (613) Commandments [Re: Faldage]
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10538
Loc: this too shall pass
could you check the numbering, please? there seems to be some interpolated shalls (e.g., between 20/21, after 26). thanx.
-joe btfsplk

#183590 - 03/14/09 11:20 AM Re: The (613) Commandments [Re: Faldage]
LukeJavan8 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 8541
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
Originally Posted By: Faldage
Oh, I'm sure they're scattered about in Leviticus. You know, stuff like not wearing 50/50 cotton/polyester T shirts, not eating crab rangoon, stuff like that. The ones I posted were the Ten Commandments 2.0, the ones God gave Moses after he broke the first ten.

and in Numbers and Deuteronomy.
----please, draw me a sheep----

#183595 - 03/14/09 01:34 PM Re: The (613) Commandments [Re: LukeJavan8]
Faldage Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 13803
Numbers and Deuteronomy, of course. I shouldn't have forgotten those.

#183600 - 03/14/09 03:42 PM Re: The (613) Commandments [Re: Faldage]
PastorVon Offline

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 107
Loc: USA, North Carolina
The ten commandments listed and stated in their simplest forms are found in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. However, they are reiterated in several places as individual commandments. I'm both surprised and appalled at the lack of knowledge manifested by the various comments. For example: some apparently think that Christianity is a stand-alone religion existing totally separate from Judaism. It is not. Christianty is an extension of Judaism. (N.B. A Jew will disagree because he does not believe that Jesus is the Messiah.) If one is willing first to examine Law as it is expressed in the Old Testament alone (although I am a Christian, a Jew should be able to have a dialogue with me on that point. We should basically agree.) There are essentially three divisions to the Law as expressed in the Old Testament. (1) There are the Ten Commandments, which are also called the moral law. (2) Then there are the ceremonial laws which have to do with the cultus of Old Testament worship. While a Jewish person, unless he is a Messianic Jews, will not agree with the Christian interpretation of the continued applicablility of these ceremonial laws, Christianity believes that they apply to the New Testament era in principle only because Jesus is believed to be the Messiah (the Christ) and that his obedient life and voluntary death on the cross satisfy the detail of the Old Testament ceremonial laws. That's what the New Testament bbook of Hebrews is all about although there are various other references in the New Testament, as for example, in Acts, Galatians and Ephesians, etc. (3) Then there are the civil laws. These are the laws given to the commonwealth of Israel which expired when Israel ceased to be a nation, although the equity of those laws still apply today. All those -- what? the 587 other laws -- are essentially case laws, which are multiple practical illustrations of the application of the various ten commandments to social living. An example: the Old Testament case law required Hebrews to build a wall around the edges of their flat-topped roofs (rooves) so that people would not fall of the edges and be killed or injured. Modern homes typically do not have flat-roofs (there are some) by an application of the equity of that law would be the building of banisters on porches and stairs. They are all practical applications of the moral commandment: you shall not commit murder or manslaughter. Another example from the Old Testament era and its extension into the New Testament era illustrating the law: you shall not steal. In Old Testament times and even in New TEstament times until the invention of mechanical tools to thresh wheat or corn, tethered oxen were used to separate the grain from the stalk by walking on it. The OT said: do not muzzle the ox that treads out the corn. Jesus said that the laborer is supposed to be paid for his work. Then the apostle Paul building on both of those examples said that a minister was to be paid for his preaching. Today, stop signs and speed limits are regulations that extend the biblical principles (equity) pertaining to you shall not commit murder. Numerous other examples could be given. What about 50/50 clothes. Yes, there are some sects of Christianity and spin-off cults that are step-children of Christianity that believe that all those Old Testament civil and ceremonial laws continue to be applicable today (except for animal sacrifice). But, in the main branches of Christianity, especially Protestantism, although to some degree even in Romanism and Eastern Orthodoxy, only the equity of those laws (civil and ceremonial) continue. The Ten Commandments, however, are viewed still to be applicable. [There is a difference in the numeration of the Ten Commandment between the Protestants and the Romans because the Romans combine the first two of the Protestant numeration into one commandment and split the tenth of the Protestant numeration into two. Thus, there ares still Ten Commandments. The difference is practical but essential: Protestants believe that attempts to worship God through means that are not specified in the Scriptures violate the Second COmmandment. Since the Romanists absorb this prohibition into the first commandment, they only emphasize the required monotheism.] TMI?

A helpful reference on this may be found in the historic Presbyterian creed called the Westminster Confession of Faith. (see Chapter XIX (19) Anyone who is interested in pursuing an historic Protestant interpretation of the Ten Commandments, should access a second historic Presbyterian creed called the Westminster Larger Catechism (questions 91 through 153). These two creeds were drafted by a council consisting primarily of English ministers and laymen with some few representatives from Scotland and the Netherlands between 1643 and 1648. This council has been called the Westminster Assembly. These creeds are still held today by the great number of Presbyterian denominations through out the world and agreed to by Anglicans, Episcopalians, Continental Reformed, Methodists, Baptists, and Congregationalists although the latter denominations might articulate them differently while retaining the same meanings in essence. For example, the Anglican and Episcopalians hold to the Thirty-nine Articles; the Continental Reformed hold to the Belgic Confession and the Heidelberg Catechism; the Baptists to the London Confession; and the Congregationalists to the Cambridge or the Savoy Platforms.

It's really quite simple and not as ridiculous as some might try to make it. Your rights end where my nose begins.

#183647 - 03/16/09 05:48 PM Re: The (613) Commandments [Re: PastorVon]
olly Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 956
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Well written Pastor, whilst I agree with many of your assertions I feel that my response to them would not be appropriate in this forum.

#183726 - 03/19/09 09:35 PM Re: The (613) Commandments [Re: olly]
Jackie Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11613
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Thank you, olly. [hug]

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