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Joined: Jul 2000
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old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,094 |
I have been recently speculating about how certain key German influences could have resulted in it possibly being the dominant world language. No, I'm not referring to Nazi domination, but to an earlier time in the 18th century.
The first instance comes from the ascension of George the first to the English throne. He was a German and subsequently had little interest in England so he gave most of his limited power up to the Parliament, specifically the newly created Prime Minister. His son, George the second, had a similar opinion of the situation.
The second instance is a little later at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia. At the time the German language was spoken by a large amount of the population (Pennsylvania Dutch). When they were voting on a national language German was defeated by only one vote. I'm also told that the first draft of the Declaration of Independence (or was it the Constitution) was written in German.
So, what if the Georges had asserted their power and tried to force the German language on their subjects? What if King John had never signed the Magna Carta, thus never creating the Parliament and making it actually possible for a king to assert his power? What if one more person had decided to vote for German as the American language? Does this prove that one vote really does count? Would Australia and New Zealand followed a similar path? Would Germany have embraced democratic principles as a result? Would Germany still have tried to expand their empire in Europe? Would Archduke Ferdinand still have been shot? Would the Holocaust have ever happened? Would the Berlin Wall have never been an issue? Would communism have never spread?
And more importantly, would we all be getting "Ein Wort der Tage" (E.W.D.T.)?
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Jazz: One bit of trivia I have treasured is that the first Hanoverian was the first to pronounce the name of London's river the way it still is. No smart courtier was going to correct His Majesty. Man spricht hier ein bischen Deutch. Bill Hunt
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 87
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 87 |
Ein Wort der Tage" (E.W.D.T.)?
"Ein Wort zum Tag" E.W.Z.T. comes, perhaps, a bit closer to the A.W.A.D. meaning.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444
addict
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addict
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 444 |
what if the Georges had asserted their power and tried to force the German language on their subjects? The Williams tried that with Norman French from 1066 onwards. They made headway into the 'English' language with pork and beef and mutton. But not much. In the end they had to eat their words  This could be argued as an early example of democracy, or the will of the people... (but only to create debate!!  )
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,146 |
The Williams tried that with Norman French from 1066 onwards.
Oh, they succeeded well enough for their purposes. The barons used Norman French and, perforce, anyone who wanted to communicate with them had to know it as well. Many English (as opposed to Norman-English) thegns were bilingual until about the time of King John when English began to overtake French even at Court. But it lingered on for many years, at least until the time of Henry V.
And as your prize for bringing up "1066 and all that", here's a little poem which I learned as a child. Now, repeat after me:
"William the Conqueror, 1066
Said to his barons
I mean to affix
England to Normandy,
Go out and borrow
some bows and some arrows
we're starting tomorrow.
So William went conquering hither and thither
Till Angles and Saxons were all of a dither.
He conquered so quickly
you could not keep count of the counties he conquered.
Ten or a dozen - or maybe a score
And I haven't a doubt he'd have conquered some more.
But death put an end to his tactics, thank heaven,
Of William the Conqueror - 1087!"
FWIW
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,409 |
In reply to:
William the Conqueror, 1066
Said to his barons
I mean to affix
England to Normandy,
And apparently, from a friend who is a Jerseyman, to this day, Channel Islanders never toast the Sovereign as King (or Queen) of England but as Duke (irrespective of gender) of Normandy.Now, how did you live so long with that gaping hole in your factoid arsenal? 
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
While the Mad Max-'n'-Cap's quid-pro-quos (quids-pro-quo??) are always amusing, I'd like to return to the topic at hand if I may: What if, what if, my dear Jazzgrasshopper... I don't want to touch your logical sequence, I'll leave it to others more qualified. All I can say, and what I always say, is English reached its status because of its 'willingness' to embrace all influences. However, the Germans DID give us Christmas trees and Groundhog Day! [winking-at-Jackie emoticon]
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
In the end they had to eat their words... * Indeed, Bridget! --- *I wrote an article on this once. Damn, wish I'd thought to end it that way.
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Joined: Aug 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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AnnaS chided ever so gently While the Mad Max-'n'-Cap's quid-pro-quos (quids-pro-quo??) are always amusing, I'd like to return to the topic at hand if I may:I'm outraged - CapK's dazzling repartee is worth much more than a mere quid ($3.38 NZ)! I will however let the slight pass, as I agree that the great strength of English has always been is shamelessly kleptomaniac nature. I was under the impression that the Hanoverian George was not the only post-Norman English monarch who did not speak English. I read somewhere that Richard Couer de Lion was also not conversant with the language of his English subjects, which may explain why he spent only a few months of his reign there. The other thing that amuses me about Richard is the apparent lack of fuss made then about his being gay. It seems that 12 Century was a much more tolerant era than the 20th, or at least an era in which it was recognised that one's sexual proclivities have little or no relevance to one's competence as a political leader. Chacun to his Geschmack
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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"...because of its 'willingness' to embrace all influences." Yet, it has been suggested that English has stopped being open to influence, and American has taken its place . JazzO - To your comment about "communism" and German culture/language, given the "spread" of religion in the world...
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