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Speaking of words derived from the world of sailing, I can think of crow's nest, which was so named because sailors stationed birds which would spot land from a distance, and the land lubbers that they were, would fly in the direction and the sailors would just have to follow them for directions.
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That's interesting. Never new that, yet grown up in a seafaring country and harbour city. I always thought it was the sailors who were on the look out for coastal birds, but then it's just the other way around. Funny.
Is Trident for Neptunus or is it a river in Westeros?
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Merriam-Webster dates the phrase to 1818. Most websites that tell this story trace the practice to Norsemen (Vikings). Seems like a rather large gap in time.
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OED actually cites it later: 1939 S. CHAMBERLAIN Nantucket 25 Variously termed a ‘Captain's Walk’, or the ‘*Widow's Walk’, it is just ‘The Walk’ in Nantucket.
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Captain's Walk
I've also seen it paired with belvedere and catwalk, though the latter is something I associate with theaters and not rooftops.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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OED actually cites it later: 1939 S. CHAMBERLAIN Nantucket 25 Variously termed a ‘Captain's Walk’, or the ‘*Widow's Walk’, it is just ‘The Walk’ in Nantucket. Umm... Despite the title, the original post and the first two replies are actually about "crow's nest" not "widow's walk".
Last edited by Myridon; 06/27/08 10:38 PM.
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ah.. then,
2. Naut. A barrel or cylindrical box fixed to the mast-head of an arctic, whaling or other ship, as a shelter for the look-out man.
1818 Blackw. Mag. IV. 343 The Crows-Nest is..generally a cask, fixed near the mast-head, to protect the observer from cold, and enable him to look out for whales, or open pieces of water.
but,
1. Mil. ? A fort placed on a height. Obs.
1604 E. GRIMSTONE Hist. Siege Ostend 163, 2 Frenchmen..fled unto the enemies to the crowes neast.
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my building (one of 6 identical hi rise apartment buildings) has cat walks.
Every apartment in the building has a terrace (a covered out door "room"--(terrace is NYC term, balcony is perhaps more common)
the elevator comes up to a small hall (about 8 by 20)
it holds the elevators, an entry to stailwell, the 'garbage shut room) 2 apartment doors, and 2 exits.
the exits open to (covered but open) cat walks.
from these catwalks there are entries to smaller 'halls" --my apartment has a hall about 4 by 6 (feet) (1.3 by 1.9meters)
there is an entry door, and 3 apartment doors.
Out door 'halls'(cat walks) like this are pretty common at motels, (and they are not uncommon in NYC in middle class housing from late 1950 to early 1970's.. (they were popular for a time.. its passed)
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termed a ‘Captain's Walk’, or the ‘*Widow's Walk’, it is just ‘The Walk’ in Nantucket. When you look at the houses it's clear why it is also called 'Captain ' s' walk. The common sailor's wife would stand on rocks, dune or beach to do her expecting and mourning.
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A launched crow, even one not intending to rook a ship's officers and crew but simply flying as the crow flies, might lead a ship's navigators onto a reef, a shoal, rocks, or wreckage, so eagle-eyed lookouts, and telescopes when available, were greatly valued even on well crow-stocked ships.
Last edited by morphememedley; 06/29/08 03:50 AM.
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 Always knew crows are up to no good.
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A launched crow, even one not intending to rook a ship's officers and crew but simply flying as the crow flies, might lead a ship's navigators onto a reef, a shoal, rocks, or wreckage, so eagle-eyed lookouts, and telescopes when available, were greatly valued even on well crow-stocked ships.
Assuming the story about the origin of the term crow's nest is correct. I have my doubts. It sounds like a folk etymology to me.
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Assuming the story about the origin of the term crow's nest is correct. I have my doubts. It sounds like a folk etymology to me.
surely the citation from 1604 (above) lends additional doubt. - ron o.
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Ja, it's wikipedia and supposed Navy information. Obscurish. Still a challenge to find a real source for the word. (sorry, the birds are sticky.) This page takes it back to the Vikings,always good for anything Navy-VikingsAnd a crow surely outspeeded those ships. They would have lost the bird within a few minutes, specially when the sight was already bad ( The reason for using them). Foggy tale.
Last edited by BranShea; 06/29/08 01:31 PM. Reason: link
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old hand
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A launched crow, even one not intending to rook a ship's officers and crew but simply flying as the crow flies, might lead a ship's navigators onto a reef, a shoal, rocks, or wreckage, so eagle-eyed lookouts, and telescopes when available, were greatly valued even on well crow-stocked ships.
Assuming the story about the origin of the term crow's nest is correct. I have my doubts. It sounds like a folk etymology to me. I concur. Surely the origin of the term is no more complicated than the fact that crows and ravens build their nests high up on the tallest trees. Simple as that.
Last edited by The Pook; 06/29/08 11:09 PM.
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I stepped onto the plank in doing my part to advance board bird wordplay ad nauseam.
I would not be surprised if the Vikings tried crows, but I don’t have evidence that even they did.
Last edited by morphememedley; 06/30/08 03:51 AM.
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Pooh-Bah
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We were being kind and not mentioning it in public. 
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Assure you your shipwrecking post gave me a good laugh, and you do have evidence that it did.  (still want and answer as straight as the crow flies ) 
Last edited by BranShea; 06/30/08 07:42 AM.
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Unless I just wasn't paying attention, there's an amazing lack of crows in "Treasure Island", "Mutiny on the Bounty", Horatio Hornblower, Christopher Columbus, ...
Also, keeping birds is not a particularly clean occupation. Putting a source of fresh guano at the tip-top of the ship seems unwise. It's probably not a particularly good for the long term or even short term health of the birds either. It would not be convenient for the person who has to feed and water the birds. If the purpose of the birds is to be released to fly away, it seems unnecessary that they start from any higher up.
It seems like there would be a colorful name for the poor swabby whose job it was feed the birds and clean their cages and/or the duty would be a punishment "After ye finish swabbing the decks, ye must clean the crow's nests, arrr!"
I also read the next entry on the page "dead horse" - the party and burning of a horse in effigy sounds like it would make a rollicking scene for a book not to mention a movie, and yet...
Last edited by Myridon; 06/30/08 08:02 PM.
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Verry, verry good !!! Hah! This navy lore.....After all I think it is called so for whoever had been misbehaving in the Captain's eye had to be "The Crow" for the day and sit up there on the lookout for anything, pirates, hostile fleets, hurricanes coming up. So they would ask "who's going to be the crow today?"
Last edited by BranShea; 06/30/08 08:35 PM.
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Pooh-Bah
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Also, keeping birds is not a particularly clean occupation. Putting a source of fresh guano at the tip-top of the ship seems unwise.
but it would explain why they call it the poop deck. and why they have to keep swabbing it.
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Interesting, for those who may be (interested, that is) in the
Judeo-Christian Bible/Torah in Deuteronomy chapter 22 is teaching about good will, ecology, reasonable consideraton and integrity. In verse 8 it says;" When you build a new house, put a parapet around the roof; otherwise, if someone falls off, you will bring bloodguilt upon your house". Put a railing around your widow's walk???
----please, draw me a sheep----
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When you build a new house, put a parapet around the roof; otherwise, if someone falls off, you will bring bloodguilt upon your house.
When I was in India last, my hosts and I spent a lot of time up on the roof of the apartment building I was staying in, especially in the evenings. My host also spent time pouring buckets of water around to cool down the cement. Sometimes we'd sleep up there at night. It seems common enough in hot climates. Also, I am reminded of the houses in the ancient city of Çatalhöyük, which is almost 10,000 years old, the houses did not have doors but an opening in the roof and ladders were used to gain access to the roof which could be drawn up afterwards. (I think a similar situation obtains in Taos Pueblo.)
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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And in the New Testament of the Christian Bible, the Christ is inside a house, when the people outside lower a man through the roof to have the Christ heal him. Undoubtedly the same concept: a door or opening in the roof for access up for sleeping purposes and the like.
----please, draw me a sheep----
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Note to zmjezhd:
Interesting in India. I am having a somewhat difficult time navigating around this site. Can you help? With a thousand posts you must have it all down. How can I add a picture or avatar? Other questions persist, but I will plug along on my own for a while and attempt to get it right. I am 60 years, and new to the computer world much less the Internet. Thanks.
----please, draw me a sheep----
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How can I add a picture or avatar?
At the top of this page, click My Stuff and you will see a choice My Profile. Choose it. Scroll down the page, there is a function that lets you upload and image for your avatar.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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re: My host also spent time pouring buckets of water around to cool down the cement.
back in the 1960's, we lived on the fifth floor (top)of an apartment building (in the bronx)
every evening, on hot days, my dad would go to roof, and lower a hose that my 'grabbed' with a bent coat hanger.
she'd attach to the kitchen sink faucet (we had a quick connect fitting)--and he would hose down the hot asphalt, with cold tap water. (and it would cool via evaperation.. and in time cool the apartment too--we had no A/C back then, just fans, and it made a big difference.
(we also 'washed" (off the sand) after a trip to the beach on the roof.. the parapet offered some privacy, (and most of the building were the same height) we'd rinse off, remove our suits, and walk down to the apartment wrapped in a towel)
(now days access to the roof is not permitted.. (it was beginning to happen in the early 1970's
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note to zmjezhd:
Thanks so much for the help. Another question, the last for now. Is there a proper place to write you a note such as this without putting it out there on the forum???
Thanks again, I am much appreciative.
----please, draw me a sheep----
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click on a name (over to left), click on 'Send a PM'..
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it would explain why they call it the poop deck Ha! Zed, you kill me! Thank you! Luke, et al, a belated welcome. I've been busy trying to be a hostess this week. Another help could be the FAQ next to Search, above. Though it doesn't tell you how to navigate, I noticed. Hmm--I think I'll start something I've been thinking about, which was to try and refresh the Tips for Newcomers thread over in I & A; but now, I'm thinking it'd be better to simply start anew and modify as desired. Thanks for the motivation! Not sure how far I'll get just now (it's coming up on midnight) but I'll at least make a start.
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