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Obvious, but it never occurred to me until an chance conversation with my oldest daughter that 'Cafe' is French for Coffee. M-W says before that it came from the Turkish 'kahve'. I had heard of 'cafes' growing up and always inferred that they were smallish, which agrees with m-w.
Cafeteria, OTOH, well, I'll copy m-w here:
"Etymology: American Spanish cafetería coffeehouse, from cafetera coffee maker, from French cafetière, from café"
So I grew up calling the school lunch room a cafeteria. But also there were places like "The Blue Boar" that my grandparents loved to go to that were called cafeterias where they had buffet-style. However, those buffets were different than the modern ones in that you paid for each trip - and the food was already portioned out on plates for you. You would take a tray up and get several different plates and then you would pay for each individual item on the plate. Buffet I guess means table or board or something like that. It doesn't mean "all you can eat" (at least that's not the etymology). It means "things on a table, ready to eat."
When we moved to AK, there was I recall, on Post, (Ft. Wainwright) a "groceteria" which was often shortened to "the grosh" or "the gross." It was indistinguishable from what we would call today, "a convience store." I've never been to another place that referred to "groceteria." Grocery comes (m-w again) from Anglo-French 'groser' or wholesaler. I recall the first day in our new housing, being sent to the 'gross' with $5 to buy 1 loaf bread and 1 half gallon milk - and coming back with just a little change. My parents had trouble believing I didn't buy something else with it. (This was 35 years ago. It does not seem so incredible now.)
There was an army hospital not too far from there that had a kind of cafeteria in its basement. It was a lunchroom with only vending machines. Hot and cold sandwiches, maybe soups, chips, drinks, etc. I can't remember if there was a special name for it. I think this might have been a throwback to an earlier era.
Regarding "diner," I note that m-w does not include a definition that means "a restaurant." I'm not sure the difference between a diner and a cafe, except I always saw a diner as more home-brew American and cafe as more cosmopolitan. I don't know whether I have correctly inferred the distinction.
Restaurant come from French 'restore.' That kinda makes sense.
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Thanks for this nice long post just when I feel like a general strike from what I really should do and rather would sit in a road- side cafetaria or diner. Buffet I guess means table or board or something like that. It doesn't mean "all you can eat" (at least that's not the etymology). It means "things on a table, ready to eat." The French word "bouffer" however definitely means to stuff oneself with food. Ever seen the movie "La Grand bouffe" where four middle aged friends are literally stuffing themselves up till the tragic grand finale? (yes, ultimate decadence of course) Movie info I don't know what came first, buffet or bouffer.
Last edited by BranShea; 04/25/08 02:12 PM.
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My favorite Anglo-Spanish word is washeteria for coin-operated laundromat.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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There was an army hospital not too far from there that had a kind of cafeteria in its basement. It was a lunchroom with only vending machines. Hot and cold sandwiches, maybe soups, chips, drinks, etc. I can't remember if there was a special name for it. I think this might have been a throwback to an earlier era. Is Automat what you are thinking of? In addition to the famous Horn & Hardart, I think there was a Chock full o'Nuts Automat in Manhattan too. At any rate I ate at one or two of them as a yute.
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Obvious, but it never occurred to me until an chance conversation with my oldest daughter that 'Cafe' is French for Coffee. M-W says before that it came from the Turkish 'kahve'. I had heard of 'cafes' growing up and always inferred that they were smallish, which agrees with m-w. It also Spanish for coffee, and also "coffee colored" or tan/beige. Cafeteria, OTOH, well, I'll copy m-w here:
"Etymology: American Spanish cafetería coffeehouse, from cafetera coffee maker, from French cafetière, from café"
So I grew up calling the school lunch room a cafeteria. I grew up with that, too, and they still use it in schools around here. It's pretty much the general term for a room where you can buy your food and sit down, as opposed to a "food court" (at a mall) where there is a choice of vendors, or outside at a festival of some kind. Cafeterias are self-contained, in our usage. But also there were places like "The Blue Boar" that my grandparents loved to go to that were called cafeterias where they had buffet-style. However, those buffets were different than the modern ones in that you paid for each trip - and the food was already portioned out on plates for you. You would take a tray up and get several different plates and then you would pay for each individual item on the plate. As a child on a trip to Europe, we stayed at an inn called The Blue Boar, so it brings back those memories to see the name, even though "mine" was in Malden, Essex. We stayed there before crossing the channel to visit Belgium, Germany, Denmark and Holland. Buffet I guess means table or board or something like that. It doesn't mean "all you can eat" (at least that's not the etymology). It means "things on a table, ready to eat." It seems no one knows the origin of "buffet". Here's a made-up idea: "buffet" (BUH - fet) means to jostle, and if you are at a buffet, you might get jostled... Okay, a probably a bit too modern, but perhaps the idea of a table or piece of furniture with many serving dishes on it jostling each other trying to fit. It's plausible, anyway! When we moved to AK, there was I recall, on Post, (Ft. Wainwright) a "groceteria" which was often shortened to "the grosh" or "the gross." It was indistinguishable from what we would call today, "a convience store." I've never been to another place that referred to "groceteria." Grocery comes (m-w again) from Anglo-French 'groser' or wholesaler. I recall the first day in our new housing, being sent to the 'gross' with $5 to buy 1 loaf bread and 1 half gallon milk - and coming back with just a little change. My parents had trouble believing I didn't buy something else with it. (This was 35 years ago. It does not seem so incredible now.) Now that's just gross! It really does sound funny to my ears. It's not a word in (standard) Spanish, although a homophone is "grosería", which means something rude (gross/coarse). In Spanish the suffix "-ería" often denotes a venue that sells whatever the root part is, for example: zapatería (zapato = shoe), panadería (pan = bread) and so on. (Hence, also, "cafetería"...) There was an army hospital not too far from there that had a kind of cafeteria in its basement. It was a lunchroom with only vending machines. Hot and cold sandwiches, maybe soups, chips, drinks, etc. I can't remember if there was a special name for it. I think this might have been a throwback to an earlier era. The first time I ever saw one of these was in Europe as a child. We must have been whining about being hungry and my parents desperately looking around (waaaaaay before "fast food" joints we know today), and I was fascinated by the glass revolving cases, the pre-made sandwiches and the novelty of it all! I think it was in Holland (help, Bran!), and called an "automat". Regarding "diner," I note that m-w does not include a definition that means "a restaurant." I'm not sure the difference between a diner and a cafe, except I always saw a diner as more home-brew American and cafe as more cosmopolitan. I don't know whether I have correctly inferred the distinction. To me diners are along the lines of truck stop restaurants; homemade, basic (fattening) "comfort" food; inexpensive, but usually pretty good, with the requisite good coffee. As you say, a cafe to me is upscale, less food, more different kinds of coffee and desserts. Restaurant come from French 'restore.' That kinda makes sense. Didn't know this; it makes a lot of sense! Especially for "break-fast"!
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NYC has gasateria's (self service gas stations, before self service was the norm)
and a diner was a small coffee shop/eatery that started out as a dining car of of a train.. (i knew some diner that were just that!)
they often grew (adding on side dining rooms, (and eventually they got rid of the rail road car!)
in new york, greek diners (about 50% of them are still owned by greeks) set the standard for diner.. LOTS of food, good prices.. (think of the diner in sienfeld..)
greek diner set a high standard.. good food, lots of it, and low (relatively low) prices.
about 25 to 40% of the menu was greek food--
(i just came from breakfast at a greek diner-Fame on Union turnpike and utopia! (ah, i've been to utopia.. (and its not all its cracked up to be!)-breakfast was 4.50--for 2 eggs, toast, 8 oz of fresh squeezed OJ,(not a miserly 4 oz glass!) home fries, and all the coffee you could drink (3 cups)
(chain breakfast places often have cheaper 'specials' but don't include both coffee and OJ.. add them, and the price is much more!)
my local diner, (rego park diner) is transisioning.. the new owners (still buying the place) are south americans (and are using the place for bringing in family.. the wait staff all speak english, but the "bus boys" (adult men and women) are less proficient (but they only work at that job for 6 month to a year before moving on)
the old owner was greek (and he stops in every once in a while)
(its interesting how different ethnic groups gravitate to different jobs.. most of the gas station in queens are own by turks, (but in naussa(next county over) they are owned by persian(as they call them selves!)
Professional russians, (no matter what they did in USSR, run pharmacies..apparently most doctors find it easier to pass the test to be a pharmacist--and that's what they do.
(and a large percentage are owned by russian mob--who use the stores as fronts for money laundring, and to whole sale the drugs required for meth production.) (you can tell, all the stuff in the store gets dusty.. (low product turn over) but the store stays in business in high rent locations for years..
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On a European tour many years ago, we ate at an automat in a Koln (Cologne) train station which the tour guide referred to as a schnell imbiss, but I think that the term applies to any sort of quick snack food place not just an automat.
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lots of schools round these parts (and elsewhere, I suspect) have "cafegymatoriums", or just "cafetoriums".
lovely.
formerly known as etaoin...
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schnell imbiss
Yes, this is the generic term for fast food snack hut: literally quick in-bite. (Imbiss is also my name without the first and last letters and without the space.)
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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(Imbiss is also my name without the first and last letters and without the space.) cue dramatic music
formerly known as etaoin...
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cue dramatic music
... of course, the aliens in charge of the grammar mavens have been known to get peeved ...
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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When we moved to AK, there was I recall, on Post, (Ft. Wainwright) a "groceteria" which was often shortened to "the grosh" or "the gross." It was indistinguishable from what we would call today, "a convience store." Now that's just gross! It really does sound funny to my ears. It's not a word in (standard) Spanish, although a homophone is "grosería", which means something rude (gross/coarse). In Spanish the suffix "-ería" often denotes a venue that sells whatever the root part is, for example: zapatería (zapato = shoe), panadería (pan = bread) and so on. (Hence, also, "cafetería"...) I suspect that it was pronounced gross-uh-TEER-ee-uh rather than in any Spanish way. but speaking of Spanish, when I was visiting a customer in New Jersey and working on one of their machines that my company made, the mostly Spanish workers there referred to the traveling lunch truck that came around during the noon hour as la lonchería.
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You're right, Faldage! I sorta jumped over the "te" in there... Yes, Spanglish is my third language. ;0) It's interesting about lonchería, though, because the word "loncha" means "slice", and often sandwiches are made with slices of stuff, so you could almost justify that one! One that will likely be adopted into Spanish is "chequear". The word "cheque" is legitimate, but only as a noun referring to a bank check, but I think that is a foot in the door for the illegitimate verb form. :0)
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and a diner was a small coffee shop/eatery that started out as a dining car of of a train.. ( In Australia the first diners were also dining carriages on trains. Later the American usage for a cafe-restaurant on a main highway came in.
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