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Previous Thread Next Thread Print Thread Page 2 of 3 1 2 3 Re: Literal Meaning Vs. Dictionary Definition zmjezhd #175361 03/31/08 10:30 AM Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,067 Tasmania The Pook old hand The Pook old hand Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,067 Tasmania I don't think the OP was suggesting using the word cognates with the students anyway. My point is that the original point is valid no matter what you call them. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Literal Meaning Vs. Dictionary Definition The Pook #175366 03/31/08 01:15 PM Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel zmjezhd Carpal Tunnel Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,290 R'lyeh My point is that the original point is valid no matter what you call them. And my point was for him to use a set of terminology to describe these relationships that is consistent with what experts in the field use. I noted: "They are a similar kind of historical development, but not cognates." At this point, I might add morphological between historical and development. Ceci n'est pas un seing. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Literal Meaning Vs. Dictionary Definition Bigwig Rabbit #175390 03/31/08 11:11 PM Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 33 California, USA Bigwig Rabbit OP newbie OP Bigwig Rabbit newbie Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 33 California, USA As the OP, I'll say these: first, I have used the word "cognate" sparingly for items such as the prefix "con-" (meaning "with" both morphologically as well as in Spanish). As of yet, I have not run into them so often, or rather, I have not worked out a really good way to address them in a logical manner. In fact, I haven't worked out how to address anything in a logical manner. My curriculum that I am developing is still in an infantile state. >Likewise, I would use the term etymological meaning, rather than >literal meaning. How about "essential meaning"? Once I define "essential" I think the kids would have an easier time retaining and relating to the concept. I've been calling it the literal meaning of the word, but I see your point in being more precise in my nomenclature. http://shooper60.googlepages.com/home Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Literal Meaning Vs. Dictionary Definition Bigwig Rabbit #175393 04/01/08 12:38 AM Joined: Oct 2000 Posts: 5,400 rego park of troy Carpal Tunnel of troy Carpal Tunnel Joined: Oct 2000 Posts: 5,400 rego park you could also have them look for patterns... like A some words start with A (amoral, atypical, abyss, )are connected (by A) and other A(l) words (alcohol,) are connected in other ways.. and then there is about.. (is there a word bout? (sure) and what is the function of the A--or is about 'whole' word in its self?) it can be a lifelong habit of looking at words.. (and while there are always exceptions, learning to 'break apart" (and put together words!) can be fun (and can help when you come to unknown words... an understanding will help make good guesses (and good guess can add points to SAT scores!) my other obsession Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Literal Meaning Vs. Dictionary Definition Bigwig Rabbit #175957 04/17/08 05:15 PM Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 132 G goofy member goofy member G Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 132  Originally Posted By: Bigwig Rabbit How about "essential meaning"? I wouldn't use "essential meaning" myself... then you're saying that the essential meaning of "dilapidate" is "stone", which makes no sense. "etymological meaning" is much better. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Literal Meaning Vs. Dictionary Definition goofy #175983 04/17/08 11:44 PM Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,067 Tasmania The Pook old hand The Pook old hand Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,067 Tasmania  Originally Posted By: goofy  Originally Posted By: Bigwig Rabbit How about "essential meaning"? I wouldn't use "essential meaning" myself... then you're saying that the essential meaning of "dilapidate" is "stone", which makes no sense. "etymological meaning" is much better. How about "component meaning" or "compartmental meaning" or "morph slot" meaning or a similar word that refers to the morphological components of the word? Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Literal Meaning Vs. Dictionary Definition The Pook #175985 04/18/08 12:07 AM Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 33 California, USA Bigwig Rabbit OP newbie OP Bigwig Rabbit newbie Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 33 California, USA As far as dilapidated meaning "stone", my dissecting of it brings me to "completely throw stones" (French dis + lapidare). This is my core issue with which I'm dealing. For comprehension and vocabulary purposes, I want the kids to be able to come to this etymological meaning and merge it cognitively with the dictionary definition. I want them to begin moving toward doing this automatically when they read or take tests. My idea of calling it the "essential meaning" was to simplify the term, but still be as pedantic as possible. In other words, I'm all for isopaleocopric pedagogy. http://shooper60.googlepages.com/home Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Literal Meaning Vs. Dictionary Definition Bigwig Rabbit #175987 04/18/08 12:48 AM Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803 Faldage Carpal Tunnel Faldage Carpal Tunnel Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 13,803  Originally Posted By: Bigwig Rabbit As far as dilapidated meaning "stone", my dissecting of it brings me to "completely throw stones" (French dis + lapidare). The di- is from the Latin di-, dis-, 'apart'. There's no completely in there. Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Literal Meaning Vs. Dictionary Definition Faldage #175989 04/18/08 01:12 AM Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 33 California, USA Bigwig Rabbit OP newbie OP Bigwig Rabbit newbie Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 33 California, USA My source for dismeaning "completely" was the Miriam Webster Prefixes and Suffixes reference. (sorry about the superfluous characters!) I'm not arguing that you are wrong, Faldage, I'm just posting my source. If I'm mistaken, you can see why. dis- prefix 7ME dis-, des-, fr. OF ? L@ OF des-, dis-, fr. L dis-, lit., apart, to pieces@ akin to OE te- apart, to pieces, OHG zi-, ze-, Goth dis- apart, Gk dia through, Alb tsh- apart, L duo two8 1 a : do the opposite of : reverse <a specified action= 9disjoin: 9disestablish: 9disown: 9disqualify: b : deprive of <a specified character, quality, or rank= 9disable: 9disprince: : deprive of <a specified object= 9disfrock: c : exclude or expel from 9disbar: 9discastle: 2 : opposite of : contrary of : absence of 9disunion: 9disaffection: 3 : not 9dishonest: 9disloyal: 4 : completely 9disannul: 5 7by folk etymology8 : - 9disfunction: 9distrophy: I http://shooper60.googlepages.com/home Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Re: Literal Meaning Vs. Dictionary Definition Bigwig Rabbit #175993 04/18/08 03:42 AM Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,067 Tasmania The Pook old hand The Pook old hand Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,067 Tasmania  Originally Posted By: Bigwig Rabbit I'm all for isopaleocopric pedagogy. ...which would be different from isopaleocopralitic pedagogy... Copy Link to Clipboard Share Post on Facebook Share Post on Twitter Page 2 of 3 1 2 3 Moderated by  Jackie  Hop To General Topics ------  Information and announcements  Q&A about words  Wordplay and fun  Words and languages in schools  Miscellany  Weekly Themes  Looking for (writers, speakers,... (Old) Weekly themes. 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