|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 631
addict
|
addict
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 631 |
IMO what you are really complaining about zmjezhd is an enthusiasm for words.
I just read "How We Know What Isn't So: The Fallibility of Human Reason in Everyday Life" by Thomas Gilovich. One chapter concerns the face on Mars and other related phenomena. The author describes the causes, the implications, and the research literature. He does not use the word pareidolia once. It's absence is not even noticed.
The fact is, any "special" word can be described by means of other, more pedestrian words. Not only are the special words not necessary, it is often best to avoid using them. People will not understand them, and you may even look like a blowhard or a wiseacre or worse for taking the trouble to introduce them.
That is why people like us—who feel that words are interesting in themselves—come to places like this. And if our unflappable insistence on finding a word for a thing is sometimes a little overarching, that is hardly our fault. The poster, by asking a question, announces his ignorance respecting it, and therefore cannot be expected to know when his question is pointless and when it is going to be validated by an answer. The language is too vast and too complex to make reliable presuppositions about what is and what is not a stupid question.
A lot of the words I collect are as dead as a lepidopterist's butterflies—I will never use them in speech or writing. But I like them, and so I'll keep on looking for them in strange places, even at the expense of coming off however it is I come off by wanting to know words for sounds or by grailling after the single lexeme.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 389
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 389 |
A lot of the words I collect are as dead as a lepidopterist's butterflies—I will never use them in speech or writing. But I like them, and so I'll keep on looking for them in strange places, even at the expense of coming off however it is I come off by wanting to know words for sounds or by grailling after the single lexeme.
I'm glad that you do. What a wonderful collection it is.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
what you are really complaining about zmjezhd is an enthusiasm for words
No, you're wrong. That is not what I was complaining about, and I am just as enthusiastic as the next member of this board (or any other) about language as a whole. Not just words, mind you, but collocations, phrases, clauses, phonology, morphology, compounds, syntax, pragmatics, semantics, etymology, lexicography, prosody, literature, et bloody cetera. When asked, I even play along and suggest words which may or may not fit the bill. I'd think that if you'd read just a small bit of any of my posts, you'd realize that. My little rant in this thread was not directed at a poster, past or present, asking after a putative word, but rather at those who would dismiss a two or three word offering as, a priori, unworthy of consideration. I did not mean to single any one person out, and if you felt I meant you, then I most heartily apologize. I do think this board is big enough to accommodate both our enthusiasms.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 631
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 631 |
My little rant in this thread was [...] directed at [...] those who would dismiss a two or three word offering as, a priori, unworthy of consideration.
There is some truth to what you say; but there is also a difference between a nominal phrase and a descriptive phrase. For someone seeking to know if a particular word exists, the former is definitely worthy of consideration. But it's also a fact that people come to Wordsmith Talk looking for the mot juste. Very often, they find it, and that can lead to a flurry of other questions. It's exciting. What word will they discover next? When asked, I even play along and suggest words...
How gracious!  I do think this board is big enough to accommodate both our enthusiasms. I'm not sure if your wording implies an ungrounded assumption that my enthusiasm stands in direct contrast to yours (just the words please, as opposed to a holistic appreciation for the many aspects of language). Just to be clear, I am also interested in all of the things you mentioned (collocations, phrases, etc.), even the one's I don't really understand. But what is the focus of these boards? Words or language? Is the distinction even clear cut? I'm not sure. As often happens, a misunderstanding has arisen because the subject of dispute has not been clearly defined. I thought you were ranting against those who expect to discover that for every thing there's a single word and who believe that somehow the word is always superior to the description; when in fact (as you now make clear) you are ranting against a tendency not to accept a nominal phrase instead of a single word—something quite different, and something I have not actually noticed. Perhaps I am not very observant. I did not mean to single any one person out, and if you felt I meant you, then I most heartily apologize. There's no need to apologize. I think open-minded debate is mutually beneficial: What can be triangulated from two oppositional standpoints is very often closer to the truth.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
I thought you were ranting against those who expect to discover that for every thing there's a single word and who believe that somehow the word is always superior to the description; when in fact (as you now make clear) you are ranting against a tendency not to accept a nominal phrase instead of a single word—something quite different, and something I have not actually noticed. Perhaps I am not very observant. and I'm not seeing a difference between those two. isn't the tendency not to accept the phrase what drives the need for a single word?
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
Holy Grail! Are the board's features under attack again or is it this weird dream thread that makes me see doubles under the posts, a changed "Active Topics" page and little ghostlike
unsmilies beside our avatars?
Or is just my Old-Betsy Computer going down?
We're in the middle of some changes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
Holy Grail! Are the board's features under attack again or is it this weird dream thread that makes me see doubles under the posts, a changed "Active Topics" page and little ghostlike
unsmilies beside our avatars?
Or is just my Old-Betsy Computer going down?
We're in the middle of some changes. I'm getting it, too. I hadn't noticed the smilies, but that's an indicator for online status. yellow for online, gray for offline. and further, re the smilies, you can now change yours, to indicate your mood! (thought the choices are lacking...)
Last edited by etaoin; 03/13/08 12:39 PM.
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
Oh, allright then. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 6,511 |
Or is just my Old-Betsy Computer going down?
ahem.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
I think open-minded debate is mutually beneficial: What can be triangulated from two oppositional standpoints is very often closer to the truth.
Seems OK to me.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,333
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
709
guests, and
3
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
