|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876 |
On the other hand, in tonal languages, without the right accent it must be almost impossible to communicate. In the case of tonal languages, I would say that this is not a case of having an "accent", because the tonal variations are what actually make up the language. In this case, having the wrong "accent" would be to speak the language incorrectly, an obvious problem for communication! :0)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876 |
You claimed that accent is unimportant in communication. I will concede that I should have modified "unimportant" with "generally". Obviously there are situations in which an accent is so strong that the words are no longer pronounced in way comprehensible to some listeners, but I think (I repeat "think", not "know") that these situations are somewhat uncommon. :0)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557 |
My mother is quite "dys-accent-al" (is there a word for that?). While there are a few accents she can manage quite well, she cannot understand anyone with an unfamiliar accent.
There is an ophthamologist in the same town who came from South Africa over 40 years ago and has the slightest "posh British" accent, but she can't understand most of what he says even though most of their conversations consist of eye exams - "is 1 better? or 2?", "what?", "1 or 2?", "what?", ...
A few weeks ago, she had to call Symantec's tech support line. The call took about two hours because the support rep had to spell a lot of words out a la "a as in apple, b as in banana, ..." after the first part of the conversation where they had to agree on the "alphabet"
Rep:"e as in eagle" (ih oz'n aygull)
Mom:"is that e as in egg? or a as in apple"
Rep:"e as in egg"
etc.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
tonal languages
English uses tone also. It's just that we do not use it phonemically. We use it sententially to indicate things such as questions, doubt, or emphasis.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 120
member
|
|
member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 120 |
And sarcasm! I think tone is important for just about every language. Though non-verbal, ASL relies on tone conveyed through facial expressions and body stance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
On the other hand, in tonal languages, without the right accent it must be almost impossible to communicate. I've heard of the existence of a Chinese language that has the same sounds as Mandarin but with different tones and that for a native Mandarin speaker it is totally incomprehnsible, but for someone who has learned Mandarin from a non-tonal language, in this case English, it was as comprehensible as Mandarin was. Which might mean ...not at all? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
On the other hand, in tonal languages, without the right accent it must be almost impossible to communicate. In the case of tonal languages, I would say that this is not a case of having an "accent", because the tonal variations are what actually make up the language. In this case, having the wrong "accent" would be to speak the language incorrectly, an obvious problem for communication! :0) Yes. That's what I thought I said.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876 |
On the other hand, in tonal languages, without the right accent it must be almost impossible to communicate. In the case of tonal languages, I would say that this is not a case of having an "accent", because the tonal variations are what actually make up the language. In this case, having the wrong "accent" would be to speak the language incorrectly, an obvious problem for communication! :0) Yes. That's what I thought I said. I was not disagreeing, just saying that it shouldn't really be called an accent, because I doubt they even exist in tonal languages, although I am no expert. Anyone want to be the expert? :0)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
because I doubt they even exist in tonal languages, although I am no expert
I suppose it depends on what you mean by accent. Many non-native speakers of Mandarin have what I would consider an accent. For example, a friend of mine from Canton has a noticeable Southern (Chinese) accent when he speaks Mandarin. He tends to replace x /ɕ/ and sh /ʂ/ with s /s/ and n /n/ with l /l/. He gets the tones right, though, Cantonese having 5 or 6 to Mandarin's 4.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 876 |
zmjezhd, you are quite correct about defining accent. It is more than just tonal variations. One that is common and sometimes confusing to new learners of Spanish is the ll. Many times it is taught as the same as a y in English, as in yellow: llama = yama. In many countries, especially in SA, however, you will find a sound more like sh or dj, or some combination in between: llama = djama. Neither one is "correct", as both are acceptable and comprehensible. To my ear, "yama" sounds more "gringo", for what that's worth. But then, I lived in Chile for a year, and they have charming regional accents, to the extent that native hispanohablantes sometimes guess that I am Chilean. Of course, if I really get going, I tend to use some give-away phrases, too! :0)
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,316
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
471
guests, and
3
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
