|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Is weald really a single-syllable word, or is it just my Southern accent making me incapable of saying it in one?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
Can you say bean in one? Or wealth? Or wield?
Today's word "echt" by the way is the most real "echt" genuinely Dutch word possible and that one you would sure not be able to pronounce.
It's a common word and one the checking-words to make sure if one is 'real'(echt) German or 'real' (echt) Dutch.
The ch sound was, during the German occupation, THE test to know if someone might be a German infiltrator (f.i. in the resistance movement).
The top word for this purpose was Scheveningen or
Schiermonnikoog.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 390
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 390 |
The ch sound was, during the German occupation, THE test to know if someone might be a German infiltrator (f.i. in the resistance movement).
The top word for this purpose was Scheveningen
Thanks to becoming very good friends with someone from Scheveningen, who told me about his town's usefulness in the war during which he was a child, I managed to master that delightful sound. It took a lot of patient correction from my friend though. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Can you say bean in one? Yep--silent a. Or wealth? Yep--silent a. Or wield? Nope--I have to pronounce both wield and weald as wee-uld. However, if weald has a short e sound, I can say weld as one syllable. [shrug]
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 456
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 456 |
All that and did not know who was 'les Boches'? 
ÅΓª╥┐↕§
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
> 'les boches' = lethologica-amnesia. Now it's back. > Jackie, your LD problem gave me a new bizarre one syllable word. Weld (and what the vache is mignonette?) Weld: 1. European mignonette cultivated as a source of yellow dye; naturalized in North America. 2. United States abolitionist (1803-1895). 3. A metal joint formed by softening with heat and fusing or hammering together. > I managed to master that delightful sound. It took a lot of patient correction from my friend though.Then Latishya you are ready for infiltrator duties in the Lowlands.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 120
member
|
|
member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 120 |
It's a sweet smelling flowering annual. 
Last edited by Maven; 02/21/08 10:23 PM.
tempus edax rerum
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
The ch sound was, during the German occupation, THE test to know if someone might be a German infiltrator (f.i. in the resistance movement).
The top word for this purpose was Scheveningen
Thanks to becoming very good friends with someone from Scheveningen, who told me about his town's usefulness in the war during which he was a child, I managed to master that delightful sound. It took a lot of patient correction from my friend though. Scheveningen is most famous as the traditional home of the Old Holland brand of oil paints. Though no longer made at the historical factory there, there are several new lines of synthetic pigments named after it. I use their Scheveningen Rood Licht (Light Red) in my paintings.
Last edited by The Pook; 02/22/08 01:03 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
ScheveningenOne of the funnier scenes in Verhoeven's Soldaat van Oranje ( Soldier of Orange) is when some young Dutch guys challenge a suspected German (who is also Dutch) with this famous shibboleth, and proceed not to be able to pronounce it properly also. I was able (after many tiny glasses of schnapps to pronounce the Danish version, rødgrød med flød /'ʁøðgʁøːˀð mɛð 'fløːðɛ/ ( red (fruit) compote with cream) to my relatives' hilarity and mirth. (It demonstrates the Danish phonological phenomenon stød, also.)
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 390
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 390 |
Sounds like fun. It also makes me think of this gem from youtube.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
Sorry I do this all in one post.I'm mostly sound asleep when you do the talking.> Maven, ah, reseda lutea, growing in urban peripherial places and alongside railroad tracks. >The Pook: Wow! who'd have thought the Scheveningse Old Dutch paint would make it all the way to Tasmania! It is super quality. I have some too. (I hope you will add a homepage or site to your profile.What and how would Tasmanians paint?). > Latishiya:  , the Danish video. We once did a ten days ' biketrip in Denmark with only a little pocket Polyglot. We had great fun with that. Though many words seemed related to ours, we were always fooled. we were great with the litte sentence : "jay ikke verstor". (I do not understand) " jay" , we thought, meant "you", but no, it means "I". "ikke" we thougth meant "I", but no, it means "no". Verstor is similar to our word for understand, but the point was always: who was to understand who?  At midday we once took a beer ( øl ) at a wayside Frankfurter (pølser) - stand. >> lunch. The word øl looks lik oil and we thougth it might add some fuel to the muscles.We hat to crawl our way up that hill. > zjmejhzd, I hate to appear ignorant, but at last I'll ask : what do those little cubicles mean? I tried to look it up but Google takes no ɛ for a question.
Last edited by BranShea; 02/22/08 03:12 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
what do those little cubicles mean?It's the IPA ( link) transcription of the pronunciation of the Danish shibboleth.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
It also makes me think of this gem from youtube.
Sad, but true. That is the funniest thing I've heard in weeks. I worked with a Norwegian for a while, and he would start to rant about Danish at the drop of a hat. Mind you, there are two official, competing versions of Norwegian, and kids have to make a decision sometime early in their schooling which one to go with: Bokmål 'Book Language' (aka Dano-Norwegian) and Nynorsk 'New Norse'.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
>It's the IPA (link) transcription of the pronunciation of the Danish shibboleth
Aieaye! When I see that page I know I am and will stay ignorant.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
Aieaye!
It's just like painting with sounds, Bran. Every profession has its terminology.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,773 |
Jackie, it's really a good question. I had often entertained it whilst writing "The World, as Told to the Young Man" a work of some 77,000 words entirely of one syllable except for the footnotes
Webster's Collegiate is somewhat equivocal. Presumably the hyphen preceding the schwa signifies a syllable. Weald doesn't have it while world does though for the life of me both sound the same
If you'd like to read my book I'd be flattered; I am dalehileman@verizon.net
dalehileman
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
>a work of some 77,000 words entirely of one syllable
good gosh! that sounds like some thing for (or by) an eight year old.
-joe (it's not so hard) f.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,773
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,773 |
For yes but by, I'm not so sure. Have you tried it, might be harder than you suppose
dalehileman
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 390
enthusiast
|
|
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 390 |
It also makes me think of this gem from youtube.
Sad, but true. That is the funniest thing I've heard in weeks. I worked with a Norwegian for a while, and he would start to rant about Danish at the drop of a hat. Mind you, there are two official, competing versions of Norwegian, and kids have to make a decision sometime early in their schooling which one to go with: Bokmål 'Book Language' (aka Dano-Norwegian) and Nynorsk 'New Norse'. The follow-up youtube video has the two Danes briefly talking about Nynorsk.
Last edited by latishya; 02/22/08 07:33 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 557 |
Can you say bean in one? Yep--silent a. Or wealth? Yep--silent a. Or wield? Nope How about wheeled?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
The follow-up youtube video has the two Danes briefly talking about Nynorsk.
Yes, this one wasn't quite as funny as the first, but still some good glotto-humor.
[Edited down to size and for accuracy.]
Last edited by zmjezhd; 02/22/08 08:15 PM.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 456
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 456 |
A. found Danish difficult even in a second visit to København but had the rather prejudiced impression that it would be much easier for Dutch speakers. Cannot help but wonder if øl is more akin to 'ale'.
Still remember this: "Jeg talle kun lidt Dansk."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
For you English speaker it is more akin. Dutch does not know the word ale, only the word bier. From ale to bier is a far jump.
From øl to olie (oil) is close.
I think the distances between English / Dutch and Dansk are about equal, but on other words. See, jeg and ik are close (for Dutch) but lidt and little are close for English . That is if :"Jeg talle kun lidt Dansk" means "I can speak only a little Danish"
Talle sits in our word vertellen. (to tell) (I did no check on this). I may have guessed this all wrong.
Last edited by BranShea; 02/22/08 08:47 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
if øl is more akin to 'ale'.They are cognate. From PIE root * alu- 'bitter, beer', cf. alum, German Alaun, Lation alumen.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
How about wheeled? No. That has to be whee-uld. (And I'm not talking diphthong.) Are you asking because there are people who can say it in one syllable?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
wheeled
I've always felt that words like fired or yield have one-and-a-half syllables, but perhaps it's just something special about approximant consonants (e.g., l, r). Nobody has trouble saying that words which end in a stop, like fight, or a fricative, like strives, are monosyllabic. (This is in Standard US English.) But as soon as you look at something like fire all certitude goes out the window.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
Southerners may say it whee-uld, but the rest of the world probably has no trouble saying it wheel'd.
It's dialectic.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,295 |
How about wheeled? No. That has to be whee-uld. Is it not just a matter of speeding it up a bit?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
In current theories of phonetics, the very concept of syllable structure is problematic. More references can be found in this article on ambisyllabicity in the language of the Rigveda ( link). More can be found by googling ambisyllabicity. (Some languages even allow words that have a-syllabic words, along the lines of English shh or Mandarin sz 'four'.)
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
No matter how fast I say it, it's still two-syllabled! Numbers one, four, eight and ten often come out in two syllables, too, but they don't have to like wield/wheeled/weald does.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
It would be interesting to see a graph of a soundtrack of different people speaking this word to see whether it really is one syllable.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290 |
It would be interesting to see a graph of a soundtrack of different people speaking this word to see whether it really is one syllable.
I don't really think that would solve the problem. I've spent some time looking at spectrograms of speech, and it's difficult to tell much from them. I'm not aware of how to determine syllabicity using them. If it were easy, phoneticians wouldn't be arguing or worrying about what constitutes a syllable.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,067 |
It would be interesting to see a graph of a soundtrack of different people speaking this word to see whether it really is one syllable.
I don't really think that would solve the problem. I've spent some time looking at spectrograms of speech, and it's difficult to tell much from them. I'm not aware of how to determine syllabicity using them. If it were easy, phoneticians wouldn't be arguing or worrying about what constitutes a syllable. Yes, that's the word I was trying to remember. My forgettery is working extra well today!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
My forgettery is working extra well today! heh
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,351
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
477
guests, and
2
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
