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zmjezhd #170630 10/15/07 06:43 PM
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Okay, zmj, first I misunderstood what you were saying, and then I misstated what I was trying to ask gaah; but I'll still never follow all those PIE connections!

tsuwm #170631 10/15/07 07:46 PM
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but I'll still never follow all those PIE connections!

Do you mean you don't follow how gaus, cow, bos, and bous could all be related to one another and how the word they came from was something like reconstructed *gwos? Or, do you not see how Sanskrit, English, Latin, and Greek are all related to one another, though not one of them is descended from another?


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
zmjezhd #170632 10/15/07 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Do you mean you don't follow how gaus, cow, bos, and bous could all be related to one another and how the word they came from was something like reconstructed *gwos?


and don't forget ox and bull!

Quote:
Or, do you not see how Sanskrit, English, Latin, and Greek are all related to one another, though not one of them is descended from another?


that's the bigger question, isn't it, and the answer(s) seems to be loaded with suppositions.

tsuwm #170633 10/15/07 08:04 PM
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and don't forget ox and bull!

Are you saying that ox and bull are descended from PIE *gwos? English ox is usually considered to be from PIE *uks-en- 'bull, ox'. Bull is from *bhel- 'to blow, swell'.

Or, are you questioning the semantics of the root *gwos? Historical linguists are doing two things when they reconstruct hypothetical PIE roots: first, the try for the sound of the word, and then, they try for a meaning. Etymological dictionaries use these two constructs without much commentary, but if you look at the literature, you'll see that what the roots (and meanings) are are a kind of shorthand for a bunch of data and ruminations on same. What is problematic with positing that a word for one age and sex of a cow may change over the six or thousand years between PIE and English (or one of the other IE languages)? Words change in pronunciation and meaning all the time.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
zmjezhd #170634 10/15/07 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Are you saying that ox and bull are descended from PIE *gwos?


uh uh. you suggested it..

Quote:
Latin bōs, bovis, Classical Greek βους (bous, /'bo:s/) (Modern Greek βους (bous, /'vus/)), English cow, kine, Old English cy, Sanskrit go (gaus) 'ox' are all from PIE *gwou- 'ox, bull, cow'.

tsuwm #170635 10/15/07 09:31 PM
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you suggested it..

Hmm. That's strange. I suggested nothing of the sort. I did say that the four words in the four different languages were from the reconstructed PIE *gwou- root. That root is glossed (or has the meanings) 'ox, bull, cow'. That's why I (rather consistently) put the lemma in italics and the gloss(es) in apostrophes (well, technically in foot signs). Sorry for the confusion.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
zmjezhd #170640 10/16/07 12:16 AM
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Z
Zed Offline
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A boss is also the keystone where two arches intersect.

Zed #170641 10/16/07 02:11 AM
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A boss is also the keystone where two arches intersect.

Ah, yes, and a boss is also a guy what runs fings.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
Buffalo Shrdlu #170657 10/16/07 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: etaoin

Then this definition may a.o. refer to this:

boss:
5. Ornament consisting of a circular rounded protuberance (as on a vault or shield or belt).

I was wondering what the definition meant till I looked at those pictures of the gongs.
Shield and gong have similar shapes more or less.With the gong it may also have a sound function?

And 'vault ' could refer to Zed's definition?

BranShea #170660 10/16/07 09:17 PM
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> With the gong it may also have a sound function?

definitely does. gongs without them are called tam-tams. they have a different tone.


formerly known as etaoin...
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