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Occasionally I like to read popular novels and watch mainstream movies from the same period, about the same period. This time I chose the first half of the twentieth century. The word gay came up frequently. I wasn't surprised. What did surprise me was that I couldn't recall when the use of it had changed or why. Furthermore, I couldn't think of any other words that had changed so dramatically over such a short period of time. I could only think of words that have come and gone or have changed over a longer period of time.
Can anyone think of a word that has changed its use in culture so dramatically in such a short period of time (1950-1960?)? I'm sure there are many, but I scanned the bean for a good 15 minutes and didn't come up with one.
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From Partridge's Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English: "Gay. (Of women) leading an immoral, or a harlot's, life: 1825, Westmacott (OED), In C. 20, coll., on verge of SE.--2. Slightly intoxicated; ob. C.19-20; Perhaps orig. a euphemism.--3. Impudent, imperrtient, presumptious: US (--1899), anglicized in 1915 by PG Wodehouse, OED (Sup.)." Also, gay house = brothel; gay in the arse = (Of women) loose; to lead a gay life = to live immorally; the gay instrument = the male member; gaying it = sexual intercourse. Funny how language changes even before we were born ...
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Pooh-Bah
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tot: My favorite is "drive," which formerly meant mechanical device with spining innards, now means also serial semiconductor memory dangling from keychain
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You might also want to check out the other, various meanings of drive, as a noun, in a good dictionary.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Words which refer to minorities--especially ones which have been discriminated against--seem to last only as long as it takes for them to acquire a stigma.
As well as words to mean "gay", words for mental retardation are another good example. There have been a whole slew of euphemisms from "mentally handicapped" to "mentally challenged." The lastest umbrella term (in New Zealand at least) is "special needs".
To these you might also add words used to describe racial and sexual minorities, disabilities, religious groups, and words which have had to be hijacked for language to keep up with the explosive trajectory of scientific and technological development.
One dramatic case in point: An "icon" used to be a venerated painting of Jesus Christ or another holy figure. Now the word is more likely to put in mind the little thing on your desktop you double-click to access the Internet and read, perchance, the lastest posting at American Atheists.
Last edited by Hydra; 02/13/07 02:44 PM.
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About the same time, you hear people call each other "lover" in the same way as "dear", "darling", etc., i.e. without meaning "sex partner". In particular, I'm thinking of (re-runs of) the 1952-55 sitcom "I Married Joan" with Jim Backus and Joan Davis.
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did icon only mean a holy image? i never realize or thought that, only that it meant IMAGE. the story of St. 'veronica' (a name that is, or *speculated that it is, the run together words Vera (true) and icon (image)) always seemed odd. was there a woman Veronica? or was there a woman with a Veronica? (a true image) (*see The American Heritage Dictionary, veronicaicon is used in combination with other words, and it never has a 'religious/holy' sense in these other uses, iconclast, for example.
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> iconclast
iconoclast
noun
1 a person who attacks cherished beliefs or institutions.
2 a destroyer of images used in religious worship, in particular • historical a supporter of the 8th- and 9th-century movement in the Byzantine Church that sought to abolish the veneration of icons and other religious images.
• historical a Puritan of the 16th or 17th century.
Last edited by etaoin; 02/13/07 05:30 PM.
formerly known as etaoin...
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The verum icon folk etymology is an old one, but most agree that the Roman name Veronica is a variant of the Macedonian Greek Berenike 'bearing victory' (cf. Greek Pherenike).
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Quote:
did icon only mean a holy image?
icon is used in combination with other words, and it never has a 'religious/holy' sense in these other uses, iconclast, for example.
An icon (from Greek εἰκών, eikon, "image") is an image, picture, or representation; it is a sign or likeness that stands for an object by signifying or representing it,
As icon stands for image or representation of anything ,
a religious or holy sense was for a long time the overpowering meaning. The Greek orthodox icons have been about religious representation uniquely. The word 'icon'does no longer stand for image but for that one special piece of wood painted and guilded, showing religious contents only.
The object has taken over the original meaniing of the word, so icon becomes icon . (wood, paint, Saint)
Literally, an iconoclast is a person who destroys icons, that is, sacred paintings or sculpture.
I'm sure the present use of icon for famous people is a takeover from the religious, the worshipping meaning.
In the computer world the word returns to its original meaning : image, representing anything.
Last edited by BranShea; 02/13/07 07:15 PM.
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These days I believe mouse would need a few words around it to distinguish between one or the other. Twenty years ago (or so), the choice would have been clear, and running for the hole.
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old hand
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A Caddy takes a Drive in his bus to the port to make a Raid on the Cookie Factory.
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Can anyone think of a word that has changed its use in culture so dramatically in such a short period of time
Bad: came to mean good, in probably less than the '70's decade.
Olly: Caddy? Raid?
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CD caddy and RAID (redundent array of inexpensive/independent disks).
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Re Icons - it occurs that in days of yore religion was far more ubiquitous/omnipresent than today. It seems to me that - generally- words have turned to their most basic definitions. Icon is any image rather than a hold image.
Re Gay : In my salad days -the 1930s and '40s- mmeant merry, happy without a care in the world. I recall hearing or reading the word homosexual when I was in early teens and could not find it in any dictionary in my Dad's extensive library!
Observation : The union of two females as life partners was called a "Boston Marriage" Male partners or never-married men past age 40 were "confirmed bachelors." The males were always sought out to "fill the numbers" at dinner parties etc. Ye gods how times change in a half century!!!
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Pooh-Bah
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Quote:
....Twenty years ago (or so), the choice would have been clear...
Indeed so. However, at risk of repetition I maintain that "mouse" is ok because the device looks like one, whereas, as a former prescriptivist, I would have questioned "drive"
dalehileman
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However, at risk of repetition, I maintain that "drive" is OK because its internal mechanism (i.e., fixed platters, floppy disc, drum, flash memory, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, etc.), matters not, just that it is a peripheral device which stores data even after the computer has been turned off.
Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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Pooh-Bah
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zm, thank you and so noted
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Quote:
However, at risk of repetition, I maintain that "drive" is OK because its internal mechanism (i.e., fixed platters, floppy disc, drum, flash memory, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, etc.), matters not, just that it is a peripheral device which stores data even after the computer has been turned off.
Likewise (perhaps), the magical thing under the hood of your automobile is often called a "motor". Afterall, it provides the motive force. However, it is actually an Internal Combustion Engine. There are sublte differences between motor and engine (the former most often referencing an electric device)
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Pooh-Bah
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Park, indeed. When I was a kid my engineering franternity was horrified by hearing "motor" used for "engine"
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The wireless mouse does not look like a mouse any more. Sooner like a midget space shuttle or midget racing car without wheels. High time for a name change. Ever seen a mouse without a tail?
Last edited by BranShea; 02/21/07 06:35 PM.
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Bran: As a former prescriptivist I might have agreed. However, as a student of Zen and for what it's worth on purely intuitive grounds I would endorse retention of the name in spite of the loss of tail
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Dale: A mouse without a tail is no mouse. Just a midget form of a guinea pig. In fact , my mouse still has a wire and yet he looks like a guinea pig. I still call him mouse on a daily basis because of that wire , but in private Mouse and I know that he is a Guinea Pig. 
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formerly known as etaoin...
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Don't know who wrote this one,
Noah, sailing o'er the seas,
Ran high and dry on Ararat.
His dog then made a spring, and took
The tail from off a pussy cat.
Puss through the window quick did fly,
And bravely through the waters swam,
Nor ever stopped, till, high and dry,
She landed on the Isle of Man.
Thus tailless puss earned Mona's thanks,
And ever after was called Manx.
Maybe a cat got the mouses tail?
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Quote:
is a Manx not a cat?
Yes!Etaoin, maybe manx is the perfect word for the wireless mouse.
Good, better! much better!Because they look so spacy and flashy.
And Olly's poem confirms the flying capacity of the manx.
(a smile as big as the moon for that one) 
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As the tailless mouse said, "I just cannot see it!"
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I just read the def. of pigsney, and was surprised to find:
1. A sweetheart.
2. An eye, especially a small one.
[From Middle English piggesnye (pig's eye).]
Now, the phrase 'in a pig's eye' is completely derogatory! How did that happen? I only found one "reference" to the origin, which said: The derisive retort IN A PIG’S EYE!, is chiefly U.S. and Australian (according to the OED), and is a vehement denial expressing scornful disbelief ... . Whether that's correct or not I have no idea, and I'm not going to put the source because a.) it was a person posting on another board, and (chiefly) b.) it's an "authority" that I don't recognize as such.
Aside: technically, I guess this post belongs in Weekly Themes, but since nightotter (hi!) started this thread on change in meaning, it just seemed to fit here.
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Quote:
Ever seen a mouse without a tail?
Three blind mice. 
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TEd
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I would like to know where 'in a pigs eye' comes from too Jackie. Plus it would get the thread back to the original subject which was quite interesting. I restarted from nightotter's mouse and then it was dragged (me actively included I admit) on a side track. I've searched but did not find more clearness than you did.
Wikipedia talk:Don't-give-a-fuckism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In a pig's eye. WP:NPA? I dunno, repeatedly posting to an editor's Talk page with no purpose but to belittle him, and refusing to cease and desist, ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Don't-give-a-fuckism - 60k -
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all you'll get is speculation, as pigsney and pig's eye are of questionable connection. but there is this: there were several 18th C. colloquial expressions (chiefly N. Amer. and Austral.), all derisive in nature: in a pig's ear, in a pig's arse, in a pig's eye. coincidence? probly not. 
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pigsney? interesting. I can't add anything to it. tsuwm's post seems put a stopper on it. My friend and I spent a good deal of our work time thrashing about the theme of this thread, but came up nil. At first I thought posse might work. When I was a kid it was only used to describe a group of Indians. In the last couple of decades it seemed to become more popular. But the basic def. covers all.
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From what you give as information I take it that 'pigsney' and 'in a pig's eye' may have developped along different lines. And that there is no dramatic change in meaning because the two were never really related?
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Quote:
From what you give as information I take it that 'pigsney' and 'in a pig's eye' may have developped along different lines. And that there is no dramatic change in meaning because the two were never really related?
yeah, maybe. 
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Quote:
Ahem. I say, ahem.
think it's all sewn up?
formerly known as etaoin...
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Quote:
Quote:
From what you give as information I take it that 'pigsney' and 'in a pig's eye' may have developped along different lines. And that there is no dramatic change in meaning because the two were never really related?
yeah, maybe.
Yeah. When pigs fly. 
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pigsney
Maybe it's the same sort of thing as the etymology of Cockney from cock's egg. When pigs fly, they'll lay ...
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When pigs fly they'll call their vieuw 'a pig's-eye' .
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I absolutly agree. As a former prescriptivist, as I'd mentioned on other threads, eventually any word will have come to mean anything the writer wishes it to
A drive drive drive drive is the flight of a ball in a baseball game, the outcome of which results in an automobile trip by the all-time home-run champion to a venue in which culturally-acquired concern for the proliferation of a keychain semiconductor memory is sponsored through the profits of a lumber mill whose continued existencce depends upon the legalization of dredging a shallow river intended to convey logs downstream for further processing
Venue, incidentally, is another case in point
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I was reading Somerset Maugham when the word Bondage, from Of Human Bondage, struck me as one that might be perceived differently today as opposed to 1915 when the book was published.
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