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#160 - 04/04/00 08:44 PM Re: Eighty-sixed? Help, please.
Apocryphon Offline

Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 5
Loc: Providence, RI
A new numerical coinage has arisen in the last few years (especially in Silicon Valley) to describe something similar. Instead of banned, it means, roughly, "unavailable," or, "out of the office."

The term?
404, as in, "I'm sorry, Mr. Bezos is four-oh-four at the moment."

The source? Well, it can be found at any one of a number of places, but one good place to look follows:

http://www.derrida.com/anu.html or,
http://www.derrida.com/wordsmith.html, or many -MANY- other places.



#161 - 04/04/00 09:01 PM Re: Eighty-sixed? Help, please.
AnnaStrophic Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
Goodness, Jon... that's my area code. 'Cryptonomicon' has nuthin' on this. Thanks for the post and the sources.

#162 - 04/05/00 03:25 PM Re: Eighty-sixed? Help, please.
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10538
Loc: this too shall pass
Just to eighty-six this issue definitively, here is the entire citation from the online "Etymologies & Word Origins":


The term eighty-six is restaurant/bar slang for an item that is out of stock or a customer that is to be denied service. The origin is obscure. The earliest clear reference is to the February 1936 issue of American Speech; it was undoubtedly in existence before that. Lighter cites a 1926-35 comedy where a waiter gives his number as eighty-six.

The OED2 postulates that it may be rhyming slang for nix, and most authorities tend to go with this explanation although there is no strong evidence to support it. It is plausible as restaurant crews frequently employ codes such as this.

American Heritage suggests that it may derive from Chumley's Bar in Greenwich Village, which was located at 86 Bedford Street. This is probably coincidence and the early citations
of eighty-six tend to disprove it as Chumley's did not exist until the late-1920s. Other explanations include:

A standard crew of eighty-five on British merchant ships (with the eighty-sixth sailor being left on shore)
Eighty-five tables at New York's Twenty-One club.
The number of a law forbidding service of alcohol to intoxicated customers.

There is no evidence to support any of these latter contentions.

Its usage as a verb meaning to get rid of, dates only to 1955, according to Lighter.

#163 - 05/01/00 12:38 PM Re: Eighty-sixed? Help, please.
cgblack Offline

Registered: 05/01/00
Posts: 3
Does the word deep-six v: to toss out; get rid off, relate to eighty-six in any way?

#164 - 05/01/00 12:53 PM Re: Eighty-sixed? Help, please.
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10538
Loc: this too shall pass
not likely; deep-six comes from the standard for burial at sea: a depth of six fathoms.


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