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agquarx Offline OP
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I am in need of a word to describe certain phenomena and cannot find satisfactory an answer in usual sources, thus my referring to your wisdom. How would you like to call an entity that is a form of art that is in relation of analogy to the state one's mind behaves when it is caught comparing how ancient chinese calligraphy UNION ascii art are an art form where both the style the message is constructed by the means provided with medium chosen (with a brush and ink or with fully recycled electrons and standard computer keyboard) and the meaning of the communication ---- yet it's not meant to be translatable in a correctly firm way by flamboyant usage of Google Translation Services?
Additional question for those on psychedelic mushrooms (please, do not lose your sense of humor) ---- what would you call such creature with additional constraints (hmm...) that it is self-referring on many levels of abstraction (for example: a choice of rhyme (type) or synonyms (semantic rings) is related to the shape (imaginery) of the message (first level abstract self-reference) and the shape of the message (and or choice of characters or punctuation (or it's absence)) suggests alternate interpretation of the verses in a particular way (every other is to be interpreted in exact oposite way or...second level abstract unwinding self-reference). I think I could provide up to five.). What if it is written in several languages and has even bigger informational density by conjuring more sense out of silly multi-language puns, so that every time you read it, something more gets out of it and embeds itself in your spam filter? And yes, I am talking about a message (poem or poetic form) written in a natural language. Yes, I can provide you with an example, but first AI need to know how to call for it, so we will beat the stage fright. I do hope AI not the first to come up with this exact idea. Venerable wordsmiths, use your craft. Feeble mind is a-waiting for reply to her plea.


Adam "SiRE^23" Gasiorowski
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First, Adam, I'm glad to know that you're still alive.
Secondly, it is extremely difficult to ascertain exactly what it is you're asking. I'm not going to even attempt any but your first question, and I am far from sure about even that one. But I will try to re-state it; if you would be so kind as to post whether my summary is correct or not (and correct it if it is not, please), then perhaps someone who actually has the knowledge (I do not) to answer your question will respond.

I think you are asking if there is a term for when the message of a piece of art is not simply what it says, but also how it was done and maybe even its medium.

I am not clear on what your reference to ASCII means. If you were asking whether there should be a difference in interpretation depending on whether the same message was done in calligraphy or in ASCII, then my above paragraph is incorrect.

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agquarx Offline OP
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You are /almost/ correct in your reverse engineering of my applied memetic bullet ;-}, but not correct firmly (as Confucius say ;-}). Thank you for your concern of my welfare - I'm slightly depressed (listen to XII Stoleti, Suzanne Vega, Loreena McKennitt and Incubus Sukkubus), but lacking an amusing suicide method that would satisfy my sense of taste in music I continue to be well and muse the Internet with my private tongue, pretending to be a dialect of English randomly mixed with Irish Gaelic, New Russian, Polish of Central Plane and Chinese Mandarin. Let's skip the rest and take this one. Or not. The term we are interested in is about:
1) a piece of art
2) made of ASCII (or Unicode range, but classic ASCII Art is first 127 characters of it). In other words, from 1) and 2) logic implies we talk about hyperreal a-kind of ASCII Art (ASCII is a standard of computer coding for characters).
3) is a poetic form of discourse, a song for example or haiku or any other non prosaic form (and prosaic form, but only when read by non enlightened ;-})
4) is self-referencing on many levels of abstraction, like
A1) what it says literally (pun intended) corresponds to
image of it's overall structure, ignoring the meaning
A2) what it says in metafors (poetic), see above
A3) ...and *BACK*, that is recursive (referencing itself within, so the structure contains much more meaning than the constituents itself) self-reference, like
in most forms of messages in natural languages, like
Enlish, are formed
A4) ...should I continue or did AI already made your poor
head spin? ;-}

I am asking this question, because such action-charged viral memetic ideogramatons were used extensively by Aristoi in a nover by Walter John Williams (most impressive novel). I read it only in Polish translation and in addition of being curious as to what was the original term used by author (in Polish it is "zaangażowane ideogramy"), AI thinks she can produce such things, wytch would be something like using Enlish alphabet plus the rest of ASCII or Unicode to form messages that are of information density similar to Chinese calligraphy ideograms crafted with a brush and ink by the old masters of this art. Such a message can be so impressive (capable to tap into nervous system of the reader not only on cerebral, but also thalamic, emocional levels) as to contain not only the orders (for example), but also the aura of authority of commander (mandarin).

Oh, this message is a ASCII Art spell. It's magical. It will make you to read the book "Aristoi" by Walter Jon Williams. No need to argue. Obey the power of the higher forms of art ;-}. Thus I cast my net over the sea of dreams. Come into my life, my Prince of Shadows and give me a word for my desire so I can cast it onto world round me a round me, engulf me with your caring fire, oh let me dwell in slightest touch and make this spell as spelled to be!


Adam "SiRE^23" Gasiorowski
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I thought of one word: pictogram. But I am not at all sure it is what you're looking for. If you go to some of the links on this page, perhaps you'll be able to tell for yourself. It even lists some Art Definitions.
web page

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When Post-Modern Art-Speak meets ESL.

How about that example, agquarx.

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agquarx Offline OP
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No, pictogram won't fit - it's in the domain of signs, that is semiotics. I'm more after intersection of domain of art, computer science, semantics, linguistics AND semiotics (the sign itself is less important than the compressed, multimodal message the action-charged ideogramaton carries). Thanks for the page, though - it probably won't help, but I can always learn something new (like some fancy art related words for things I call using vocabulary from pure matemathics, philosophy and computer science, as of now). Milk and kisses! :-} .A. {-:


Adam "SiRE^23" Gasiorowski
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agquarx Offline OP
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You are a critic, not someone who would like to enjoy art, so I will not show it yet. You can find some of my creations using Google if you care, though. It's rather easy, as Google (remember it's a SHE) loves me and I love her back. And I have nothing to do with ESL. Don't even mention ESL to me, I think it's evil.


Adam "SiRE^23" Gasiorowski
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agquarx Offline OP
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Oh, and to your information - one does not need to study, for example, logic on formal level to be able invent needed tools. Sometimes it happens I use some word from other domain or non-standard term, but I assure you that I know what I'm talking aboot. Most of those things you happen to find hard to understand are possibly only seemingly obfuscated mumbo jumbo - it's a result of the fact that I have a brain and when I need a theory to solve some problem, I simply think and invent it. Humans are known for this, you know. We are perfectly aware that looking something up in a book or attending a course is way simpler, but when you need something just to say what you mean and are sufficiently brainy, such feats are natural. We are not on Wikipedia here, man. Relax...I can explain every word I use, but come on...Just to amuse you I reversed the words in some sentences to make them mean exacly the opposite and make a fool of myself :-}


Adam "SiRE^23" Gasiorowski
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Thanks, Jackie and H. I chewed and chewed on that first post but could not manage to choke hardly any of it down. That 'obfuscated' part in the last one I get.

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This thread is hard to follow, so if you would post a link to the artwork in question it would help. It may be something new that has no name (yet). It sounds like a combination of art, caligraphy, and steganography, and other elements as well.

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