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#161514 - 08/21/06 06:25 PM Re: Looking for the right word...
themilum Offline

Registered: 05/25/02
Posts: 1529
Loc: Aladamnbama the most watered s...

This discussion reminds me of one of my favorite speeches from Tom Stoppard's "Arcadia":

"We shed as we pick up, like travellers who must carry everything in their arms, and what we let fall will be picked up by those behind. The procession is very long and life is very short. We die on the march. But there is nothing outside the march so nothing can be lost to it. The missing plays of Sophocles wil turn up piece by piece, or be written again in another language. Ancient cures for diseases will reveaal themselves once more. Mathematical discoveries glimpsed and lost to view will have their time again. You do not suppose, my lady, that if all of Archimedes had been hiding in the great library of Alexandria, we would be at a loss for a corkscrew?"

(notice in this metaphor that the future is behind, as was discussed on another thread at this site)

Aren't hiphop sampling techniques similar to what 13th-14th century composers were doing when they blended chant fragments and popular songs into polytextual motets? Then there's the cantus firmus mass--how many Renaissance composers embedded "L'homme armé" into their Mass Ordinary movements? How much Motown is embedded in CCM?

Of course, speck, you make a good point, but are you up on your Gansta Rap?
The chants "Slap the Bitch" and "Death to Honkey" weren't, as a matter of course, included in 13th-14th Century polytextual motets.*

Similar things aren't necessarily comparable things, in fact, most of the time, I bet they ain't.

*Edit: Changed "Monet" to "motet" because the all-seeing eyes of Annastrophic caught my error. I can only hope that she doesn't find an error in this correction.

Edited by themilum (08/21/06 07:30 PM)

#161515 - 08/21/06 07:03 PM Re: Looking for the right word...
AnnaStrophic Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York

... 13th-14th Century polytextual monets.

How synaesthetically anachronistically impressionistic of you, milum.

#161516 - 08/21/06 11:55 PM Re: Looking for the right word...
speck Offline

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 11
Loc: Oregon
Perhaps the feudal "armed man" corresponds in some way to an L.A. gangsta. However, I was talking about musical recycling methods, not content.

L'homme, l'homme, l'homme armé,
L'homme armé
L'homme armé doibt on doubter, doibt on doubter.
On a fait partout crier,
Que chascun se viengne armer
D'un haubregon de fer.

The man, the man, the armed man,
The armed man
The armed man should be feared, should be feared.
Everywhere it has been proclaimed
That each man shall arm himself
With a coat of iron mail.

Take cover son or you're assed-out
How do you like my chrome then I
watched the rookie pass out
Didn't have to blast him
but I did anyway
That young punk had to pay
So I just killed a man
Here is something you can't understand
How I could just kill a man
dona nobis pacem

#161517 - 08/22/06 03:51 AM Re: Looking for the right word...
wsieber Online   content
old hand

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 1027
Loc: Switzerland
Again well said, wiseber. Yet, I am beginning to question your good judgement, because so far, I have agreed with everything you've said.
Thank you, Milustopheles. So I actually succeeded in making life a little more difficult for you .

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