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#158623 - 04/23/06 12:32 AM Re: muting Mozart  
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zmjezhd Offline
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R'lyeh
When we like something, we tend to jump to the conclusion that it's an objective judgment of some of that thing's natural qualities. Sorry; don't think so.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
#158624 - 04/23/06 12:33 AM Re: muting Mozart  
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well said.

so is there quality anywhere?


formerly known as etaoin...
#158625 - 04/23/06 01:36 AM Re: muting Mozart  
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Yes sir.

I have no problem comparing a well-written article in National Geographic about the building of the pyramids and a well-written documentary about the same.

Though the written version may be able to present more facts, the television version is able to present more visual aspects you do not get in the written article. There was a kick-ass one this month on the Discovery channel in which I learned more than I had in a long time.


The power of a well-written humourous book lifts the spirits just as spirits are lifted with a well-written television comedy where the visual aspects of the humour are part of the whole gestalt.



===========================



MAV:

Personally, I really hate rap, but Iím sure that those who do could come up with arguments to the effect that it is as good a Mozart. I donít think so, but thatís also only my opinion. I donít believe I am the holder of the ultimate truth.

You have every right argue that television has low cultural value. But it is an opinion. Just because you strongly believe it is so, doesnít make it the ultimate truth either.

I believe we should be allowed to voice our opinions, but I also believe it is boorish and rude to "look down" on people who do not believe what we do.

The television issue amazes me. Why is it o.k. that people emanate a feeling of superiority about not watching television Ė like not watching television makes them better people; yet they donít look down on people who donít share their opinion on other things (like the rap or elevator music).

Not watching television doesnít make you a better person, it just makes you a person with different tastes and different opinions.

It is that self-righteous superiority that annoys me, not the fact that people believe different things than I do.

#158626 - 04/23/06 01:47 AM Re: double-muting Moe's Art Deco Bar  
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R'lyeh
Well, I was talking about qualities as in properties of objects and not quality as in something good. So, I suppose if you're talking about the inherent characteristics of something then hiphop and Mozart have a lot of similarities, but if we're talking about how hiphop is better than Mozart or vice versa then that's another kettle of fish. Aesthetic qualities, like semantics, reside in the human interpreter and not in the music / message.


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
#158627 - 04/23/06 01:57 AM Re: double-muting Moe's Art Deco Bar  
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yeah, I realized that, but it made me tie into what mav was saying about quality. and got me wondering.


formerly known as etaoin...
#158628 - 04/23/06 01:59 AM Possible New Emmy Award Category  
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There was a kick-ass one this month on the Discovery channel

PRESENTER: And the winner, for the most kick-ass documentary programme, is ...

#158629 - 04/23/06 02:23 AM Re: Possible New Emmy Award Category  
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my daughter holds that watching television doesn't make you stupid, (but it doesn't do much to make you any smarter)
watching television makes you normal. television is an artifact of our society.
not watching (and for a short while i didn't have a TV, and for a much longer while (years!) my son and family didn't have a TV)--DD worried his kids wouldn't be normal.

DD is proud owner of a 32 inch screen tv, and regrets now she didn't buy a thin screen--she doesn't schedule her life round the TV, but she is aware of its cultural 'value'.

TV shows serve as common denominators--they give you something to talk about at work, (sex, religion and politics are not acceptable!) and its cheaper, and easier than drinking yourself into oblivion.

there isn't much much value to many TV shows, but a good deal of live theater is silly (disney!) musicals, and really how much social value is there in that sort of theater?(yes, there is theater that has social value, but beauty and beast ain't it!)

an opera's today require some effort, but when italians were watching italian opera, well the stories are no better than soap operas--albeit they are shorter.

yet so many hold theater (in general) and opera (in general) to be 'superior' arts than anything available on television.
Yes, TV is a vast wasteland --with only a few redeeming shows--but well, so is a good deal of theater!

there is good stuff out there, and i love live theater, but i think i agree with Bel, many people have a sort of moral superiority about not watching TV. (and their smugness is annoying.

(i don't think any one here has been smug, or smarmy about tv watching or not watching tv)

#158630 - 04/23/06 11:23 AM Re: Possible New Emmy Award Category  
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(i don't think any one here has been smug, or smarmy about tv watching or not watching tv)

Oh! Me either! I did re-read my posts, just in case, because I know I was very fervent in my responses. I don't think I was insulting anyone, but you know how it is with this type of written Board - the tone of your argument doesn't always come out the way you want it.

I do hope that no-one took it that way.

#158631 - 04/23/06 04:41 PM Re: double-muting Moe's Art Deco Bar  
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Aladamnbama the most watered s...
Quote:

...Aesthetic qualities, like semantics, reside in the human interpreter and not in the music / message.



Speaking of semantics, zmjezhd; what's zat you say above?

Given that all "meanings" reside in human interpertation, what is it in your meaning that requires a distinction between "aesthetic qualities" and things non-aesthetic?

#158632 - 04/23/06 05:13 PM Re: humpty dumpty hermeneutics  
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R'lyeh
Given that all "meanings" reside in human interpertation, what is it in your meaning that requires a distinction between "aesthetic qualities" and things non-aesthetic?

I was just saying that quality, like many words, is polysemous. And that eta seemed to be taking it one way, while I meant another. The speaker interprets, too. Since our vocabularies are so far apart, I have my doubts that we two can communicate in good faith, but I'm willing to give it a try ...


Ceci n'est pas un seing.
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