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stranger
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stranger
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The use of "but" question made me think of an odd speech pattern I frequently encounter in the Southern Tier of western New York. In answer to a statement such as "I like chocolate", the standard response is "So don't I", when they actually mean "So do I". It's very prevalent, and highly irritating. I'm finding it in cross-generational usage, and at varying levels of education and sophistication. I've lived in many other places, and have never encountered this structure before. Has anyone else experienced this?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Re : "So don't I."
It's also been heard in Southern NH, Maine and parts of the Northern Kingdom. I heard it more often years ago, not so much now. Surprised, actually that it's still around.
wow
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Wasn't some speech pattern like this picked up in "The History of English" on the islands off the Carolina coast? Not quite the same, but the usage of a negative to indicate a positive.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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I have always found the use of negatives common, if sometimes irritating, in the North of England. I can't remember the exact saying but for example, rather than ask "Did you like that?" I often heard "Didn't you like that?" said without the tone of voice which would imply anything negative.
This often leads to long, winded double negatives like "Were you not thinking of not going out today?" They tend to sound better spoken in the local accent, such as the North Yorkshire/Lancashire border, not far from Rhubarb Commando, where there is a lovely singalong accent. I used to enjoy sitting back and listening, rather than trying too hard to unravel what people were saying.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I often heard "Didn't you like that?"
Somewhere, long ago, I read that using the negative developed from the original phrase "Did you not like that?"
Make sense? Does to me.
wow
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newbie
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newbie
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Another expression common to the southern tier of NY is "We're going 'down' to Ithaca" even though by looking at the map, one is theoretically going "up" if one lives in Corning.
When I first moved to this area and wasn't familiar with the towns yet, where places actually were located confused me. So I wonder from where the terms "uptown" and "downtown" came. I've always thought both to be unspecific unless one was actually going down into a valley or going in a southerly direction, etc.
"Adversity is the whetstone of creativity"
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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So I wonder from where the terms "uptown" and "downtown" came.
In my experience it's region-specific or even specific to the town you are in.
Perhaps a way the locals can tell if you're a newcomer?
wow
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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If you look at a topo map you'll notice that coming to Ithaca from any direction is "going down", as would be going to, say, Watkins Glen. The northern ends of the Finger Lakes don't seem to be so drastically cut into the surrounding territory as do the southern ends, so probably you wouldn't hear the phrase used for Geneva.
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newbie
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newbie
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No. I do hear it locally to describe going ANYwhere. They all say "down" for whatever town they are heading. Just a local idiom that confuses the newcomers for sure! We're in northern PA and yet, they say going "down" to Corning which is north of here in NY. It isn't a topographical direction to them at all.
And, a little bit of local interest: newcomers are generally called "flatlanders" and the locals (but not within earshot :-) of them) are called "ridge-runners".
"Adversity is the whetstone of creativity"
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old hand
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old hand
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I think the use of "we're going down to 'Nome'" comes from the southern usage of "y'all come down ya hear?". I assume the people in American south were usually directing this at their cousins from the north. Perhaps the "down" part just because common usage and people don't really think about it when their saying that they're going somewhere.
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newbie
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newbie
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You're correct, I believe. It's very definitely local idiom. People don't really think about it if they've lived in an area all of their lives. So when speaking with newcomers, it isn't apparent to them that it would confuse direction-giving. Add that to "Oh, to get to the mall you turn right at the Smith's house" not "Oh, to get to the mall you turn right on Rt. 648". Who the heck are the Smiths?  It makes the words "think before you speak" applicable in more than just relationships. "Adversity is the whetstone of creativity"
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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I've learned to question what is meant when someone tells me to go down ( that didn't come out the way I meant it  ) when giving me directions. The lack of correlation with compass points seems to be prevalent. More confusing are all the regional idioms which require knowledge of local history and geography, but the integration of cultural references makes for richer exchanges. In Michigan, for example, our terms for each other -- yuper, fudgie and troll -- would make no sense to outsiders, but can identify the geographic origins of both subject and speaker.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Sparteye: yuper= someone from the Upper Peninsula?
Can't guess fudgie and troll, unless a troll is someone who lives near all those lakes and rivers you have up there.
(Trolls for fish, that is.) I caught a Northern pike up there one time--scared the bejeebers out of me.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Exactly. A "yuper" is someone from the U.P.
The state is, geographically and economically speaking, divided into three parts: downstate is the lower half of the lower peninsula, which is heavily populated and is the center of manufacturing and government; up north is the upper half of the lower peninsula, which is mostly agricultural and recreational; and the UP, the whole of the upper peninsula, which has extraction industries such as lumber, mining, and hunting. The only point at which the two peninsulas meet is the Mackinac (pronounced Mak-i-naw) Bridge, a 5-mile long suspension bridge over the straits between Lake Michigan and Lake Huron. In these parts, we speak of "the bridge" without further need to identify which one.
There are a lot of tourists in the up north area, especially in the summer, and especially in the Traverse City area on the west side of the lower peninsula. For whatever reason, there is a fudge shop on every corner of the tourist-trap towns in that area, and many of the tourists walk around carrying boxes of newly purchased fudge. A "fudgie" is a tourist or new resident of the area (defined as anyone who hasn't lived in the area for at least 20 years).
To a yuper, a "troll" is anyone who resides in the lower peninsula: a troll lives under the bridge.
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