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#152785 - 12/29/05 06:52 AM New York Streets (?)
Logwood Offline

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 270
Loc: Israel
From an article about Theodore Roosevelt:

"The great adventure TR called life began in this house on East 20th Street in New Your City where he was born October 27, 1858."

I'm not sure how to translate "East 20th Street". My guess is that "East", since it is capital letter, is the name of the street, and 20 is the number of the street. Am I right? does it make any sense?

#152786 - 12/29/05 07:05 AM Re: New York Streets (?)
inselpeter Offline

Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 2379
Loc: New York City
Got to say, I've never thought about that before. I suppose it *is the street name, although "East" and "West" do not appear on the street signs. You do use them, however, when addressing envelopes and packages for the mail.

The dividing line between East and West for Manhattan addresses is Fifth Avenue. West of Fifth Avenue, the addresses go up from the Avenue to the Hudson River (the western shore of the island) and east of Fifth Avenue, the addresses go up toward the East River (the eastern shore).

In conversation, some streets are referred to as West or East. For example, West Fourth Street is "West Fourth Street." On the other hand, as far as I know, West 20th Street is just "20th Street." You would add "West" with a little emphasis, or in a second statement, if you wanted to make clear which side of town you were referring to.

For your purposes, I would, as you correctly infer, treat "West" or "East" as part of the street name.

#152787 - 12/29/05 08:11 AM Re: New York Streets (?)
TEd Remington Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/17/00
Posts: 3467
Loc: Marion NC
I'm gonna disagree with IP here, even though he's a Nyawker and I am not....

The name of the street is East 20th street or West 20th Street. The direction is a necessary part of the name. Here's why:

If you are going north on 5th Ave and want to go to 25 East 20th Street ( http://snipurl.com/l4v3 ), you would turn right onto East 20th Street; but there's also a 25 West 20th Street ( http://snipurl.com/l4uz ) and you would turn left from Fifth Avenue to get there.

Both those addresses have the same street number, so you cannot disregard the East and West designations.

I'm curious, though, as to why they decided to put east and west on opposite sides of 5th Avenue, rather than First Avenue. In Denver, East and West are divided by Broadway, while North and South are divided by Ellsworth. So if yu wanted to go to say the 700 Block of East Sixth Street you would go seven blocks East of Broadway and six blocks north of Ellsworth.

The situation becomes much more complicated elsewhere. Look at this map of Salt Lake City, UT http://snipurl.com/l4vh

Note that there is a W North Temple, and E North Temple, a W South Temple, and though not shown on this map, probably an E South Temple. There is also A S West Temple and an N West Temple.

But beyond that, look at W 400 N and W 400 S. They run E-W parallel to one another but 8 blocks apart. And W 400 N crosses N 400 W and W 400 S crosses both S 400 W as well as S 400 E.

And then there would be house numbers in front of the name of the street.

I wonder if the Mormons did this so anyone invading SLC would be so hopelessly lost that they would have to ask for directions, giving the defenders a great chance to take them out.

Edited by TEd Remington (12/29/05 08:12 AM)

#152788 - 12/29/05 10:06 AM Re: New York Streets (?)
inselpeter Offline

Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 2379
Loc: New York City
The dividing line is Fifth Avenue, because it approximates the median of the Island for much of its length. If the dividing line were First, almost everything would be West for a long way.

Well, I'm talking about how we talk, and how we sign the streets v. how the Post Office works things out. I don't know how the police call things, or other city agencies. And what you don't account for is why it's West Fourth, and just plain dumpy ole Twentieth. What I'm saying, sir, is there's names and there's names. And then, of course, there's names.

#152789 - 12/29/05 10:24 AM Re: New York Streets (?)
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10538
Loc: this too shall pass
huh. i would never have considered a street direction as part of the street name, any more than I would a house (or block) number. It's all just part of an address, with the direction showing some departure from an arbitrary dividing line on the street.

the exceptions, of course, would be West Avenue (where West may have been some city father) and the like. I might live on, e.g., Aldrich Ave. S. or NE Spring St.; here the placement of the directional modifier at front or back is also quite arbitrary (and coventional).

#152790 - 12/29/05 10:46 AM Re: New York Streets (?)
of troy Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
I think that East and West are definately part of the street name(in NYC)--and since don't East and West appear on street signs? Look again (peter the Rock for a head!) the font is usually smaller, but its there!

some streets (West4th, or West 96th, are better known, and used to define a neighborhood, but 400 West 20th (chelsea city housing projects) if very different from 400 East 20th ST., Grammercy Park (a lovely neighborhood centered around NYC only private park)

(in law & order, they often have address that don't exist--like 600 East 42nd street--(which if it existed would be somewhere in the middle of the east river!)
NYC also has and East End Avenue(only a few blocks long) and West End Avenue.

5th Avenue ends at 8th street, a the north end of the Greenwich Square park, At the south end of the park, the east/west division line moves one block west, to broadway.
my other obsession

#152791 - 12/29/05 10:48 AM Re: New York Streets (?)
inselpeter Offline

Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 2379
Loc: New York City
You know, I was thinking as I walked around the office, here, that maybe the signs do indeed have a litte W or an E, and that I am so parlance-struck, that I never really even notice.

#152792 - 12/29/05 12:47 PM Re: New York Streets (?)
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/13/05
Posts: 3290
Loc: R'lyeh
Ceci n'est pas un seing.

#152793 - 12/29/05 12:56 PM Re: New York Streets (?)
sjmaxq Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 3230
Loc: Te Ika a Maui
I live in the only city in NZ which uses a US style gridblock numbering system, and here the "East" and "West" are definitely considered part of the name. Being topworlders, of course, we put the direction in the proper place, at the end. My former address for example was "915 Heretaunga St East", often written as "915E". A friend lives at 702 Park Rd North, or 702N Park Rd. The compass point is inseparably part of the address, but the street's name is not the compass point. The curious thing is that we do not use the street/avenue naming convention. Another city in NZ does, but it does not use the gridblock numbering. I don't know if that city's numbered avenues and streets have East and West.
noho ora mai

#152794 - 12/29/05 01:11 PM Re: New York Streets (?)
inselpeter Offline

Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 2379
Loc: New York City


Don't believe everything you read!


Street/Avenue convention: not adhered to in Queens, which is unnavigable. Brooklyn is also unnavigable, but it uses no convention whatsoever

Edited by inselpeter (12/29/05 01:18 PM)

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