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#151845 12/11/05 11:31 PM
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English and Russian are possibly the best thinking languages because, I'm told, each contains more words than any other language


dalehileman
#151846 12/12/05 12:46 AM
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Russian's probably got more one letter words than any other language.

#151847 12/12/05 01:14 AM
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Quote:

Russian's probably got more one letter words than any other language.




You got some splainin' to do. It's been a lotta years since I took Russian, but I recall only one one-letter word, even though the Russian alphabet consists of 33 letters: 21 consonants, 10 vowels, and two letters without sound - soft sign and hard sign.


TEd
#151848 12/12/05 01:25 AM
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If you think that you think in words you are wrong; you don't.

Our God-given senses receive information about our surroundings and our brains then store and later retrieve this information from an electrochemical-association file of molecular symbols, and then (occasionally even when necessary) we translate this information electrochemically into language.

What, you think that dogs can't think?

Last edited by themilum; 12/12/05 01:29 AM.
#151849 12/12/05 05:54 AM
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As a musician, I definitely think "in music". I can hear something, whether in my mind or from an outside instrument, and play it or write it down. Teaching piano students, I see that they learn music a number of ways. Some of the most musical ones don't read music with ease, and it seems that they do better in attempting to read, by following the notes and playing them without actually naming them. It's a direct translation from eye to hand, without translating notes as "C" or "F#". And of course many great musicians play by ear. That's definitely non-translated, as is much of improvisation.
As for other languages, living in France for a year, my English syntax often got convoluted. I do enjoy speaking Frenglish, but it is certainly frowned upon by serious speakers of French.

#151850 12/12/05 08:29 AM
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Quote:

If you think that you think in words you are wrong; you don't.






Please provide citations to support this. It might also be a good idea to describe what you mean by thinking.

Here's what I meant, just so we are hopefully on the same wavelength. Say I'm out in the shop working on a project, and I have to change a dimension on a piece of wood. I say to myself (silently though at times I might mutter out loud), Let's see, this is 100 mm long, and doesn't fit by 3 mm. I need to set the saw stop to 97." The words actually form in my mind, just as they are doing right now when I am typing this sentence.


TEd
#151851 12/12/05 11:27 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

Russian's probably got more one letter words than any other language.




You got some splainin' to do. It's been a lotta years since I took Russian, but I recall only one one-letter word, even though the Russian alphabet consists of 33 letters: 21 consonants, 10 vowels, and two letters without sound - soft sign and hard sign.




Taking them alphabetically:

A: conj. but, and, or; interj. ah!

B: gram. (used with the conditional and subjunctive moods); should, would; may, might

V: prep. in

I: conj. and; but; although

K: prep. to, towards; by; for

O: prep. about, concerning, of

S: prep, with; from, since

U: prep. at, by, to; close by, close to, near

Ya: pron. I

NB: Some of these may have two or three letter variants. This does not mean that they are not one letter words. Also note that the last entry appears to be two letters only because it is the transliteration of a single Russian character. It's the famous backwards R.

#151852 12/12/05 12:48 PM
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I'll be darned. I shoulda remembered "I" of course, and I did remember the backward R, but I do not remember ANY of the rest of these with any specificity. I vaguely remember the v, but if pressed I'd have said it was a letter tacked onto the front of another word to give the idea of "in".

One question: what's a "gram" as a part of speech?


TEd
#151853 12/12/05 12:59 PM
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Quote:

If you think that you think in words you are wrong; you don't.

Our God-given senses receive information about our surroundings and our brains then store and later retrieve this information from an electrochemical-association file of molecular symbols, and then (occasionally even when necessary) we translate this information electrochemically into language.

What, you think that dogs can't think?




I, for one, don't think we 'think' in an "apparent" internal language, at least not as the entirety of those processes we vaguely reference when speaking of thinking. Still, as they will tell you in Lhasa, it takes a lot of discipline to silence the babble, and whatever the babble is, it shapes and colors an aspect of thought, and it can be changed.

Dogs behave.

#151854 12/12/05 02:31 PM
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I know i think (and learn) more with images than with words.
I also think kineticly --i either imagine myself moving round an object, or mental rotate the object in my head.

i designed 2 kitchens by imagining them, and 'walking' round them, to make sure they would work (they did). as a child i used to love to watch the 'movement' of my mothers sewing machine, (by age 12 i was sometimes able to repair it. (i could see where it didn't move right) I still like to watch machines (I love industrial museums!) (and i like random movement too, i love my lava lamp!)

I can (and have) imagine an article of clothing and then 'study' it to see how its made, and then take out tape measure, french curve and other tools to measure and make the pattern. (or when knitting, imagined something, and then just taken up needles and knit). Knitting 'emerges' completely (and often flawlessly) from my needle.. (but no sees the hours i spend "virtually knitting" it in my head (or all the mistakes and problems i encountered there, and resolved before i ever picked up yarn!)

i can think in words, but this definately is my most laborous way to think--and i am not very good at it. (and problem words (to spell) get images as nmemotics)

as for music--well i love music, and respond to it emotionaly, but i have 'tin ear'. i don't hear the subtlies that others speak of, --i recognize that others get much more out of music, (but i total enjoy music, even if i don't 'get' half of it!) i can understand that music can be a mode for thinking (but no way, no how, can i think in music!)

I think language provides a long lasting way to convay thoughts. it provides an agreed upon set of codes to explain things..like a color.

red, not maroon, not cerise, not pink, but red--fully saturated, but not a dark shade, nor a pale tint, not so blue as red delicious apple nor so yellow as a macintosh, but red, pure red, like a rome beauty apple.

I can see a color, and with words, i can convay my visual thoughts. Yes, it takes some common background (those outside of US might not know all 3 varieties of apple, but..) they have a closer idea of the color even if they only know one variety. words provide a common frame of reference.

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