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#1490 - 04/21/00 02:57 PM Re: "Journeyman" and gender
jmh Offline

Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1981
tsuwm offers: here's an even better idea that would let people see democracy in action: use "woman" whenever we have a woman president and "man"...

That seems a perfectly reasonable offer. Looking at England to begin with, if we tot up a few dates:
1553-1558 Mary I
1558-1603 Elizabeth I
1702-1714 Anne
1837-1902 Victoria
1953- Elizabeth II
We'll carry those 174 years forward to use in this millennium, just to make things even. If we're only allowed Prime Ministers than we'll have to allow for at least ten years(1979-1990 Margaret Thatcher).

I suppose you'll just have to wait for a little longer in the USofA - although, I thought Hilary Rodham Clinton was running the country most of the time while her husband was otherwise engaged in the Oval office - surely that's worth a few credit points.

#1491 - 04/21/00 03:23 PM Re: "Journeyman" and gender
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10538
Loc: this too shall pass
"If we're only allowed Prime Ministers than we'll have to allow for at least ten years(1979-1990 Margaret Thatcher)."

first you'll need to firmly establish Thatcher's credentials.

#1492 - 04/21/00 03:54 PM Re: "Journeyman" and gender
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10538
Loc: this too shall pass
In honor of becoming a "journeyman" with this post, I'd like to get serious in the event (it's going to be a stretch for me). I wrote way back that I didn't get it; now here's why: it didn't have to be like this. We all know that one of the senses of "man" is "human being". And in fact, here is the entry from the AHD which covers the combinational form:

3. A human being or an adult male human being belonging to a specific occupation, group, nationality, or other category. Often used in combination: a milkman; a congressman; a freeman. [or Frenchman]

So, my question to you all is: who decided that we should always assume that "an adult male human" is stipulated by these combinations? Carrying political correctness to its logical extreme, we would arrive at "huwoman" I suppose?!

Oh, and BTW, the logical single-syllable representation would be "fem"; but that's been corrupted too.

...told you this would be a stretch for me.

#1493 - 04/21/00 10:34 PM Re: "Journeyman" and gender
Philip Davis Offline

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 81
I suppose the introduction of commercial based 'newspeak' might not be considered political correctness by those who don't think commercialism and marketing are forms of political activity, although they certainly have more direct affect on my life than political feminism. As to John Lewis's although it is an unequal stratified organisation it is fundamentally syndicalist and my experience is that this general means the staff appear happier and give a warm and more human service. The difference mainly being that John lewis use a term that reflects the actuality, if imperfectly achieved, of their set up and other store are using language to try and give an impression of a set up that does not exist.

One of the great achievements of feminist thinking is to show how powerful language can be in molding personal and political behaviour. However, I remain of the opinion that it is mainly a matter of good manners to use language which does not exclude people, when these people should be included. At times this requires though, care and expressions which seem a little convoluted but I hold that inconsideration and laziness are poor excuses for being rude.

#1494 - 04/22/00 12:24 AM Re: "Journeyman" and gender
tututu Offline

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 23
Loc: Bellingham, WA USA
To respond to all postings at once....
What is this homo sapiAn..........the man
and homo sapiEns............the women
of course...there is always the one about the cost of surgery on the woman's brain.....less than the man(z) because it's used....


#1495 - 04/22/00 06:13 PM Re: "Journeyman" and gender
Jackie Online   content

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11613
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Philip wrote:
...inconsideration and laziness are poor excuses for being rude.

#1496 - 06/07/02 10:57 PM Re: "Journeyman" and gender
arosebyanyname Offline

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 33

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