Wordsmith.org: the magic of words

Wordsmith Talk

About Us | What's New | Search | Site Map | Contact Us  

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
#147628 - 09/09/05 12:48 PM Re: I don't get it.  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
inselpeter Offline
Pooh-Bah
inselpeter  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
New York City
>extraneous tease<

Dang, never even noticed it!


#147629 - 09/09/05 12:48 PM Re: I don't get it.  
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
wsieber Online content
old hand
wsieber  Online Content
old hand

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
Switzerland
"sidero-" means both (iron and star)
Tempting .. in the meantime I found this:
http://community.middlebury.edu/~harris/Humanities/TechnologyGrecoRoman.html
but I find this explanation improbable, bordering on spurious..


#147630 - 09/09/05 12:55 PM Re: I don't get it.  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
inselpeter Offline
Pooh-Bah
inselpeter  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
New York City
>>I find this<<

Interesting article. "Unimportant" though? To whom? Specific iron meteorites were *very* important to certain tribes that used them to forge tools, esp. weapons, from.


#147631 - 09/09/05 02:27 PM Re: false cognates  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
zmjezhd Offline
Carpal Tunnel
zmjezhd  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,290
R'lyeh
but I find this explanation improbable, bordering on spurious

As the author points out, finding Greek σιδηρος (sideros) 'iron' and Latin sidus, -eris, 'star, constellation' cognates goes against how Greek and Latin developed phonologically. Latin sidus has been compared to the Germanic words for silver and slag, but those comparisons are not without problems, too. In the end the usually PIE root suggested (by Buck, Walde, Pokorny, et al.) is *sueid- 'to glow'. (Also, the -r- in the Latin word is probably a result of rhotacization (-VsV- => -VrV-).) The Greek word has no appealing etymology, and is thought to be a loan from some unknown language. A terminus post quem for the borrowing would be the (hypothesized) time of sV- => hV- in Greek historical phonology.



Ceci n'est pas un seing.
#147632 - 09/09/05 06:21 PM Re: false cognates  
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,538
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel
tsuwm  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,538
this too shall pass
> I'm asking about the make-up of the words siderurgy and siderated as per ullrich's original post. I'm astsuming the root is the tsame.

in other words, coming full circle, that was a bad astsumptsion.
<g>


#147633 - 09/09/05 07:43 PM Re: I don't get it.  
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230
sjmaxq Offline
Carpal Tunnel
sjmaxq  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230
Te Ika a Maui
>that used them to forge tools, esp. weapons, from.


If they had the iron, why not make real tools from it?



#147634 - 09/10/05 12:07 AM after considering all this I am unsure  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,318
wofahulicodoc Offline
Carpal Tunnel
wofahulicodoc  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,318
Worcester, MA
Re: siderated: "Ill-fated" or "blasted" ?

...So when used to mean "struck with lightning" it is synonymous with "unlucky" in the sense of being "star-crossed" or merely "blasted"


Then where do all the positive the words like "considerate" come from? Are we to conclude that "con-" here means not "with" but rather "against", the opposite of "pro" = for? Or is there a considerably different root here altogether?

All of those don't seem to have much relationship to "sider-" = iron or star, either.



#147635 - 09/10/05 12:11 AM Re: I don't get it.  
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
belMarduk Offline
Carpal Tunnel
belMarduk  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Sidérer is a very common French term that means "struck down with awe" in a negative manner. A person will be sidéré if he loses his job suddenly.


#147636 - 09/10/05 12:21 AM Re: after considering all this I am unsure  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
inselpeter Offline
Pooh-Bah
inselpeter  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,379
New York City
>>considerate<<

Terrible guess deleted. But see "consider": intensive pref. "com" + sider (star). [prob. connected to astronomy?]


#147637 - 09/10/05 11:46 AM O you who turn the wheel and look to windward  
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 38
ullrich Offline
newbie
ullrich  Offline
newbie

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 38
"Then where do all the positive the words like "considerate" come from?"

According to my dictionary, "consider", etymologically, means: 'examine the stars' from the Latin 'considerare' and "sidus".

Perhaps in its original use, to consider something meant to consult the stars for an answer.


Page 3 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Moderated by  Jackie 

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics13,877
Posts223,588
Members9,003
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
Newest Members
bpatterson0032, Aladitya_khan, JdawgGaming, Hiteshi, JaneJane
9003 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 50 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters(30 Days)
Top Posters(All Time)
wwh 13,858
Faldage 13,803
Jackie 11,613
tsuwm 10,538
LukeJavan8 8,880
AnnaStrophic 6,511
Wordwind 6,296
of troy 5,400
Disclaimer: Wordsmith.org is not responsible for views expressed on this site. Use of this forum is at your own risk and liability - you agree to hold Wordsmith.org and its associates harmless as a condition of using it.

Home | Today's Word | Yesterday's Word | Subscribe | FAQ | Archives | Search | Feedback
Wordsmith Talk | Wordsmith Chat

© 1994-2017 Wordsmith

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.014s Queries: 13 (0.003s) Memory: 2.7351 MB (Peak: 2.8662 MB) Zlib disabled. Server Time: 2017-05-28 20:27:37 UTC