|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
I noticed we had hijacked tsuwm's post on emoticons, so I move this here...
I never knew the first guy to fire in a duel, had to stand there and wait for the other guy to fire if the first guy hadn't killed him.
Seems a little crazy. The first shot is the more iffy one since you're whipping out the gun and firing as quickly as possible.
Did women ever duel, I wonder.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385 |
Seems a little crazyIt was all about "honor", belMarduk. The place where the duel took place was known as "the field of honor" and the duel itself was conducted according to a "code of honor". Is that crazy? From my little survey, the practice began in Italy prior to 1500 and then spread to France and England. It was also practised in the new republic of America where it died out in the South last [where the 'aristocratic' culture of the slave plantations prevailed]. A 'gentleman' was the head of his family, and his family was a noble line that could not suffer the blot of an unanswered insult or the eternal ignominy of an act of cowardice. Therefore, it was better to die with honor than to survive with your escutcheon forever blemished with disgrace. [One cannot live forever but the blemish on the family's reputation lives forever -- that sort of thing.] Any boy who fought as a kid understands the mentality perfectly. Back down from a fight, even with a bigger kid, and you forfeit not only your reputation with everyone who knows you for your courage, but also your personal pride. Men, in particular "gentlemen", protected their wives and families so there would be no reason for women to duel with one another. The men of the family, in particular the head of the family, represented the honor of the family and the family lineage. BTW Jackson knew that his opponent Dickinson was the better shot so he probably made a conscious decision to let him fire first, hoping he would not be fatally wounded and would have time to take careful aim in reply -- which is exactly what happened. In another report of the duel, I read that Dickinson exclaimed "Great God, I missed him" after Jackson took his shot and prepared slowly and methodically to fire back. Then Dickinson fled but he was required by the "code of honor" to return to his mark and take the shot 'like a man' -- which he did. "Dickinson ran from the line of fire, but he was ordered back to his place, a mere 24 ft. from Jackson, according to the code of honor. Dickinson stood awaiting Jackson's bullet with his arms crossed over his chest; Jackson steadied himself, aimed slowly and deliberately, and shot his opponent in the groin. Dickinson died a slow and painful death, and Jackson carried his bullet for the rest of his life; it had lodged too close to Jackson's heart to be removed."http://snipurl.com/chfc
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
The first shot is the more iffy
I dunno. It can be perty rough to get off a good shot if you're dead.
My fave dueling story was about the duel between the New Orleans dandy and the whaling captain. The whaling captain had the choice of weapons. He chose harpoons. The dandy made it to the "field of honor" and lasted until the captain said to his second (his first mate), "Stand ready to reel the lubber in!"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385 |
The whaling captain had the choice of weapons. He chose harpoons. ... Stand ready to reel the lubber in."Good story, Faldage. Reminds me of the relationship between Captain Ahab and Moby Dick which can be seen as a "duel", of sorts. Others see even deeper meaning in this relationship: "Kenneth J. Atchity, in Masterplots, noted that Moby-Dick did symbolize evil, but that Ahab's obsession to kill Moby-Dick was evil as well (pgs. 3994-3996). This harkens back to the words of Todorov and Kristeva, who both say that there is very little distance between the self and the other. Again, it seems evident that the other resides within the self. The evil that Moby-Dick appears to have is the evil within Captain Ahab. Ahab projects his own feelings and instincts onto Moby-Dick, as it is too difficult for him to accept himself as he is.
To that extent, the stigma of Moby-Dick was created, to some degree, by Captain Ahab. Rene Girard said that "despite what is said around us, persecutors are never obsessed with difference but rather by its unutterable contrary, the lack of difference" (The Scapegoat, p. 22). This lack of difference is dominant in Ahab's relationship to the whale. While Ahab may try to establish himself as a hero, he too, deep down, is evil. It is this sameness that is problematic. When it becomes too obvious that the other is no different from the self, the other becomes a scapegoat of sorts.
--------------
Ahab had to "create" Moby-Dick in order to justify his own hatred and tendency toward evil. Furthermore, Moby-Dick had to be made into a formidable opponent, so as to explain Ahab's failed attempts at destroying it. By creating Moby-Dick in this manner, Ahab created himself. The self and the other are inextricably linked ... .
In Melville's book, Ahab played the role of hunter and Moby-Dick became the hunted.
---------------
The self/other relationship can be far more complicated than what has been presented here. --- Ahab and Moby-Dick are a special case of the relationship, and they are one that deserve consideration."Captain Ahab and Moby Dick: A Study in the Self and the OtherCleveland Lawrence III American Literary Traditions Professor Bass - May 2, 1997 http://snipurl.com/g0l2
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
thanks Plutarch for that snippet. Now i completely understand your problems with me, and other long time posters here at AWAD.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385 |
Now i completely understand
That is, of course, the beauty and power of art, including great literature, like Melville's "Moby Dick", Of Troy.
We can see in it, and take from it, exactly what we wish, whether validation, or occasion for introspection or even insights prompting personal growth.
The choice is always ours to read into it whatever we please, to see ourselves as the moral equivalent of Ahab, or of Moby Dick, or to see Ahab and Moby Dick as the divided self at war with itself.
Or to read into it nothing at all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Hmmmm. That reminds me of several guys I know. They just don't get along with their Dads yet they are exactly like them. It always seemed to me that it was because they were so much alike that they didn't get along. When they disagreed on something - nobody would let go of it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385
veteran
|
|
veteran
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,385 |
That reminds me of several guys I know
How come just guys, belMarduk? We're all human ya know. :)
But, seriously, your insights are penetrating.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,891 |
Well, they're friends of mine and they're definitely men which is why I said "guys."
Women are definitely different than men, but we're the same in many ways. I'm sure there must be ladies who don't get along with their moms because they are much alike - I just don't know any, so I can't really voice an opinion on it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,230 |
In reply to:
I'm sure there must be ladies who don't get along with their moms because they are much alike
I've always thought that the main reason I don't get on with my Mum is because we're so much alike. Pretty much all of my dominant personality traits (all negative) come from my mother, which annoys me since I wish I could be more like my father.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,374
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
198
guests, and
1
robot. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
