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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Re: All primates - and we certainly are primates - have what are called 'male dominance hierarchies'. This means that the meanest monkey in a tribe takes control of the group resources, the females, the weaker males, and this character runs the show, and this is pretty much how we do it today.
i don't agree with statement.
1--not all primate have male dominated 'social' structures--many do, but not all.
and human's have had (and continue to have) many forms of social living.. matriarchial societies are not abnormal for humans, less common perhaps, but many societies have had matrilinal succession of 'kings/queens', and many societies value village elder (men and woman) equally.
anthropologist have noted, the size of males sex organs are a good indicator if a primate society is generally poligamous, or monogamst.. and humans (as indicated by the size, relively, of male sex organs) tend to be closer to a monogamast.. and tend to have one to one relationships, even if, serially, partners are changed every few years.
We might not mate for life, but generally men have one to one relationship with females.
for the most part, men are unable to perform multiple sex acts, (with one or several partners) with any frequency. and they are unable to sustain 'harems' based on sex, and keeping the females satisfied (sexually) or even just pregnant, since women living in a 'harem' type situation tend to sychronize their ovulation.)
harams have existed.. but most often they were shows of power (money/assets) rather than a situation were one dominate male being responsible for impregnating all submissive females --something a Silver back ape can do--Mature Silver backs can have sex a dozen or more times a day, for days on end.. a feat few 20 year old men can accomplish--and almost no mature (40year old) man can boast of- and all the viagra, cialis and other drugs in the world doesn't change this.
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Joined: Dec 2000
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old hand
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old hand
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> not all primate have male dominated 'social' structures--many do, but not all.
I would be interested to learn of these exceptions - I don't know of them.
> Human's have had (and continue to have) many forms of social living..
No doubt. That societies outside our Western history have non-patriarchal societies seems like a good signposting to me. But who would deny that our history is a tale of male domination and present state is one of continuing lopsidedness. The only female figures who stand out in history are almost always presented as whores either to emotion or men (e.g. Mary Magdalena, Cleopatra).
Let me say that I think mongamy, and not polygamy, is a central feature of male-dominated societies. As monogamy ensures (to some extent) that patrilinear genetics can be followed.
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Joined: Mar 2000
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
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So has anyone read anything on the Aquatic Ape stuff? I have read the book some years ago, and was so enthusiastic about it that I lent it to a friend - and it never came back. Recently there was an article about Elaine Morgan in the "New Scientist". She is still going strong.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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anthropologist have noted, the size of males sex organs are a good indicator if a primate society is generally poligamous, or monogamst.. and humans (as indicated by the size, relively, of male sex organs) tend to be closer to a monogamast
So ... is size directly or inversely related to the number of partners?
I have managed to resist posting about a dozen bawdy jokes. But I'm losing control, fast.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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the bigger the bollox, the more he frolix.
Animals that 'keep harems' of females tend to have larger sex organs than animals that tend to live in sex seperate groups that only meet once in while when a female is in heat.
Horses keep harems.. elephants don't.
some 4 legged animals have long and bony penises.. (simple to physically get to the female, but harem keeping animals (especially among primates) have large than, well, larger than needed sex organs. (and higher levels of testosterone) in order to show dominance and maintain order (by frequently engaging in sex acts.)
among all primates, if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy... and one way to keep mama happy is sex.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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>among all primates, if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy... and one way to keep mama happy is sex.
Apart from the rather disturbing oedipal overtones of the above, "all primates" is taking it a bit far. Last time I looked, I approximated the definition of a primate, but I gotta say that I would be hard-pressed to think of anything that was less important to me , or less relevant to my survival, than my mama's happiness.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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max, redefine mama as your current wife..
now- now important is her happiness to your current life?
Personal politics, --getting along with family members, work mates, neighbors is vital to all of us.. we are social animals, that chose, (generally) to live in groups.
sometimes a group as small as 2.. often larger than that.
Primates that live in harems, (where one male dominates and is father to all of the children of the group) re-enforce dominance with sex.
a new male coming into a group will often kill any unweaned young, and immediately set about getting the females pregnant with his sire.
Not all primates live in Single male dominated (or even in male dominate groups) but for all animals that live in groups, social interaction (from simple grooming) to who gets to have sex with who, and how often are big part of the social structure.
one group of monkeys has 'solved' the problems of tension between members by freely, and frequently engaging in sex.
the young are taught (by example) to masterbate, and engage in sex play. the adult are the human equivalent of 'swingers'. there are very few 'partners'--rather all members of the troop sexually interact with each other. including male to male and female to female sex acts.
Researchers freely admit, that animals that behave in ways that human society are uncomfortable with, often don't reported on, or their behaviors are glossed over.
in addition to other characteristic we share, sexual pleasure seem to be import to a number of other primates.
sexual is used to bond relationships, at one extreme by dominating and controling the sex females can get (where a single dominate male gets all the woman and all the sex,) or at the other extreme by equalizing and reducing tension by having all females available to all comers at all times..
and by many other behaviors that fall between these extremes.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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In reply to:
max, redefine mama as your current wife..
HELL NO! Yrch, that's a nightmare it's gonig to take a while to scrub out of my synapses. If your previous post hinted at Oedipus, the above screams it. You'll forgive me if I find the idea repulsive beyond words.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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How do you pronounce that?
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2001
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>How do you pronounce that?
Sorry, my limited Quenya has a heavy NZ accent (which might make it more authentic these days).
I hope I didn't spoil sjmaxq's fun by revealing where he got "Yrch" from.
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