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I just read a blog entry about riffing, (i.e., reduction in forces, being downsized, pink-slipped, fired, etc.), except the term was a South African English one: retrenching. The AHD gives: "vi. 1. To cut down; reduce. 2. To remove, delete, or omit. / vt. To curtail expenses; economize." Makes sense. Have any of you run across this meaning? http://oreneta.com/baldie/blog/archives/2004/10/a_south_african.asp
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Carpal Tunnel
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Good heavens, I thought riffing was a spontaneous solo on a musical instrument! Couldn't find any other mention of retrenching, but I did find something fascinating:
The most noticeable difference in pronunciation is probably the flat "i", so that "six" is pronounced in a way sounding like "sucks", and "today" like "to die". This is a part of the vowel shift that has occurred in South Africa as well as New Zealand. Below, the latter word is how the former word sounds to the ears of a non-South African: Rewrite in IPA
pan --> pen
pen --> pin
pin --> pun
pun --> pan One difference between (white) South African English and New Zealand English is in the pronunication of 'ar' and 'ow', as in the pronunciation of the sentence 'park the car downtown'.
New Zealand: pahk the kah dehwn tehwn
South Africa: pawk the kaw dahwn tahwn From http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/South-African-English
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Retrenchment was the word used in Jane Austen’s time to describe the act of cutting back financially. For example:
In “Persuasion”:
She consulted, and in a degree was influenced by her in marking out the scheme of retrenchment which was at last submitted to Sir Walter.
In “Mansfield Park”:
"Lady Bertram, I do not complain. I know I cannot live as I have done, but I must retrench where I can, and learn to be a better manager. I have been a liberal housekeeper enough, but I shall not be ashamed to practise economy now.”
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Carpal Tunnel
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Yes, the cutting back of expenses I was familiar with, but not with the cutting back of the workforce itself. Makes sense, of course.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Retrenchment used that way is not only a Seth Effrican English word, it's in fairly common use here in Zild too.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Retrenchment was the word used in Jane Austen’s time to describe the act of cutting back financially.
All references to Jane Austen earn the referer a bit of time off from Purgatory, which matters, of course, only to those who believe in Purgatory.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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So do I get double time off for mentioning two books?
I seem to keep bumping into Jane - like at her museum in Bath and then there's a house she lived in somewhere just off the Hog's Back that I stumbled across one time.
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Carpal Tunnel
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You goin' for a quadruple, dxb?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Don't tell my sweet bride but, for Christmas, she is getting a six-DVD set of the BBC productions of Sense and Sensibility, Emma, Persuasion, Mansfield Park, Pride and Prejudice, and Northanger Abbey. These just became available in August of this year. Maybe that means I get sextuple time off from Purgatory!
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journeyman
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journeyman
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Maybe that means I get sextuple time off from Purgatory!
...or maybe just sex!
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veteran
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OP
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Read yer Alighieri. Nobody gets off in Purgatorio.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Nobody gets off in Purgatorio
Oh, I Dante know.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Nobody gets off in Purgatorio
Arright. Let's keep it clean.
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addict
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Maybe that means I get sextuple time off from Purgatory!Maybe it just means you get a lot of sex, Father Steve.  You can worry about Purgatory later.
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addict
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addict
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Maybe that means I get sextuple time off from Purgatory!Maybe it just means you get a lot of sex, Father Steve. You can worry about Purgatory later. Oops!  I think themilum is beginning to corrode my judgment.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Actually, being forced to watch any of them (except Pride and Prejudice) again would be a form of purgatory in itself. I prefer the pictures that my imagination conjures up when I read the books!
P&P, on the other hand, was just about perfect TV. IMHO, of course ...
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Carpal Tunnel
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...or maybe just sex!I saw you, Mizz Chaos. 
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TEd
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Dear TEd ~
We could ditch the whole thing, if you find it too trenchant. In order to get the real scoop, however, you have to unearth the whole topic.
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Carpal Tunnel
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you said it in spades, Padre.
formerly known as etaoin...
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Pooh-Bah
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Do you think the humor is too earthy for him?
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Carpal Tunnel
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You both know, of course, that this only ENCOURAGES him.
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old hand
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'Retrenched' is the present day equivalent of 'laid off' throughout Australia. I've never heard of 'riffing' or being 'riffed'.
Throughout my 7 years in the people business (recruitment, outplacement), it was critical to stress the differences between retrenchment and redundancy. There is strong potential to erode people's self esteem if these words aren't used carefully. Frinstance, recent retrenchees (still trying to cope with the emotion of the situation) would often say, "I've been made redundant". This can become a process of negative affirmation unless nipped in the bud so we were trained to chime in immediately with, "No, you haven't been made redundant. YOU aren't redundant, you have been retrenched. Your previous POSITION has been made redundant". People seemed to appreciate the sentiment.
stales
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Pooh-Bah
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Outplacement??
At my hospital the former Human Resources is now Employee Engagement. Makes me wonder if the retrenchment process is going to be called "disengagement".
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Carpal Tunnel
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Retrenchement (spelled retranchement in French) means to reduce a portion off off or to supress a portion of something.
This is in addition to the military use. However in French, a retrenchement is not only a trench - or hole in the ground - it is any obstacle behind which one takes refuge. So you can have a retrenchement made of trees, bricks, wood or sandbags and a "retranchement creusé" (the trench).
There is also the French expression "pousser quelqu'un à son dernier retranchement" or "push somebody to his last retrenchement," which means pushing somebody to the end by refuting his ultimate arguments.
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Pooh-Bah
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Bel, that sounds very much the same as revetment (which also comes from the French of course):
revetment
• noun 1 a retaining wall or facing of masonry, supporting or protecting a rampart, wall, etc. 2 a barricade of earth or sandbags providing protection from blast or to prevent aircraft from overrunning when landing.
— ORIGIN French revêtement, from Latin revestire ‘reclothe’.
I guess there are subtleties here!
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Carpal Tunnel
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Hmmm. I've never heard that use for revêtement.
I looked it up in my Multi Québec (a dictionary that has Québec French) and my Larousse (a dictionary that has France French) and that definition does not appear.
Mind, you my Larousse is the Petit (small) Larousse with only some 100,000 words so it could be simply missing that definition. Where did you find it?
In Québec, revêtement, is an outercovering, or something you put over something else. For example, a wood floor will have a revêtment of hard laquer to keep it from getting damaged. A cake will have a revêtment of icing and a banana a revêtement of yellow peel. The cover you put over your umbrella is a revêtement.
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old hand
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...just backing dxb up on this one...
Definition 2 ("a barricade of earth or sandbags providing protection...") was the context in which I first heard the word used. Specifically, in relation to the earth mounds forward of warfare trenches.
Off the top of my head, I believe the term has come to be used in the english speaking world to mean any defensive barrier.
stales
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A long, long time ago, when I stared at surveillance photographs of other nations' air fields, we referred to an area where aircraft were "parked" alongside a runway, surrounded on three sides by earthworks, sometimes fortified with concrete or other materials, as a revetment.
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I've never heard that use for revêtement.
Words are like our children, belM. We try to bring them up right, teach them to do good and they grow up, use expressions like "Swell" and "So's your old man" and buckle their knickerbockers below the knee. In other words, belM, "How ya gonna keep 'em down in Paree after they've seen the farm?"
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Bien non, guys, I wasn't saying dxbie was wrong, I was asking where he got that definition. He seems to have gotten it in a dictionary, by the way he wrote it.
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Later they used Stone to cover the tops of them for further blastproofing. We referred to those as archy bunkers. But don;t tell anyone else we try to keep it ____________ (fill in the blank here, Good Padre!)
TEd
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Aye but those are all English definitions of the word. As we all know, a word can change definitions slightly (or a lot) when it moves from one language to another.
I can't find the French that spefific definition in the dictionaries I've searched through. I also tried Le Robert.
I'm wondering if it isn't a case of a defintion being altered when switched.
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This is quite a common occurence, belM. We call 'em false friends. Some would call 'em false cognates, but there's a shade of difference there.
Here are a couple of goodies: résumé has different meanings in the two languages and apparently double entendre doesn't even *exist in French. That so?
PS revestimento in Port. means exactly the same thing as in Fr.
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>>double entendre
You're right, it doesn't exist in French. Though we'd certainly need it since we have to say the full "well THAT was an expression with two meanings" sentence when it happens.
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Carpal Tunnel
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but I thought you *did have double entente!?
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Not really. Well, not here anyway. We do have "un mot a double sense" (a word with two senses) but it means a word with the same spelling has two different meanings. It isn't used to mean the slightly naughty sense you get with the English "double entendre."
Double entente is used to mean someone is perceived to have two different intentions in doing something. Like if a kid helps a older woman bring her groceries home. He could be doing it because he wants to be nice, but he could also be hoping to get a tip. It means something is ambiguous.
Unless I completely misunderstand the definition of double entendre, isn't it usually used to identify what looks like a straightforward sentence that can be interpreted to have a bit of a naughty, eye-wagging "woo-woo" type of meaning too.
I added a bit to my definitions to make them clearer. I've been thinking about the best way to explain them but it is a bit difficult since it seems like they are closely related. If any one is unclear, let me know.
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naughty, eye-wagging "woo-woo" type of meaningin official terms, yes.
formerly known as etaoin...
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