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Pooh-Bah
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Leafing through the Princeton Encyclopedia of Poetry and Poetics, I found a term that was, I think, attributed to Yeats. It concerned -- or named -- his theory that a poet doesn't need or desire to nail everything down, nor to understand anything through and through. That is, I take it, a poet acknowledges the impossibility of so doing, and writes within that limitation -- or within the opening of that freedom, if you will. A n y w a y . . . I did not, alas, write down the term, find today that it would be useful, and wondered if any of you all might know, and be willing to part with it for two groschen. Or an opera. Whichever comes first.
Thanks.
IP
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Carpal Tunnel
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Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, evil, evil insel!!!
You had me all interested, and I thought you were going to tell us what the word was after that good explanation and now you don't have it. Ahhhhhhh.
[Stomping off to the corner to pout - e]
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Pooh-Bah
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Well, Bel, when I do find it, I will be sure to let you know.
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It concerned -- or named -- his theory that a poet doesn't need or desire to nail everything down, nor to understand anything through and through. That is, I take it, a poet acknowledges the impossibility of so doing, and writes within that limitationThe term you are looking for is "intuetics", inselpeter. ** Nowadays it is referred to as "obscurantism" ... without any credit to Yeats. Defn. "A style in art and literature characterized by deliberate vagueness or obliqueness." [A-H] And St. Paul said it best, long before Yeats, methinks. [Nostradamus and the priestesses of the Delphic Oracle had a leg up on Yeats, as well.] to see through a glass darklyTo see “through a glass”—a mirror—“darkly” is to have an obscure or imperfect vision of reality. The expression comes from the writings of the Apostle Paul *; he explains that we do not now see clearly, but at the end of time, we will do so. http://www.bartleby.com/59/1/throughaglas.html* 1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. **"I still, however, tend to see the tower as a symbol of “reason,” reason as opposed to “intuition.” The rational thinking of scientists and scholars is continually opposed to the inspiration or intuition of the artist in Yeats’ poetry, as it was in almost all forms of romanticism. The tower is a symbol I will need to re-examine and come back to later. Maybe next time around I’ll argue that the tower symbolizes Yeats’ view that art should be practiced as an act of life, not removed from the world." http://lorenwebster.net/In_a_Dark_Time/archives/000111.html
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Pooh-Bah
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Thanks, much. I *thought* it was right by "Inuit Poetry" (itself an interesting entry), but somehow, I couldn't find it.
"obscurantism" seems a bit, er, on the contrary, derogatory...no?
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"obscurantism" seems a bit, er, on the contrary, derogatory...no?That depends on what you're trying to obscure, Inselpeter. Sometimes it's the only way to get satire published. As you indicated in your original post, Inselpeter, it is not Yeat's label you are looking for. It's a commentator's label. That commentator may be no more credible in summing up Yeat's oeuvre than you or I. "Intuetics" fits the bill, quite nicely, wouldn't you say? If "poetics" is the study of "poetry", then "intuetics" is the study of "intuition". The conclusion is irresistible. Two groshen, or an opera, whichever comes first. I think I'll settle for one groschen upfront, Inselpeter ... tho a "groschen" is "Inuit Poetry" to me.
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a "groschen" is "Inuit Poetry" to meLet's not get intuit now, Grapho.
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Carpal Tunnel
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"Intuetics" I like this word.
Can you say, his work is "intuetically" inclined?
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Pooh-Bah
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I wish I'd known that back in school. "It's not rubbish, sir. I was being intuetical."
A very handy word indeed.
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Can you say, his work is "intuetically" inclined?You can if he works for an outdoor cafe and he rolls out the awning before a rainstorm ... without consulting a barometer.
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Ya gotta give props to the Irish - intuetically is so much more mellifluous than obscurism.
On an oblique connection to this thread you have given me an excellent word for explaining how I lived my life - (so far) - when people talk about their Five Year Plans and Ten Year plans - i can say I prefer to live intuetically.
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Writing done intuetically may seem obscure to some, but clear enough (as clear as intended?) to others. Often poetry and sometimes prose.
Intuetically sounds like a genuine "leap" to a basic meaning or expression--Obscurantism sounds like a conscious attempt to make understanding difficult. Muddying the waters or turning on a fog machine, so to speak.
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Pooh-Bah
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Obscurantism sounds like a conscious attempt to make understanding difficult. Muddying the waters or turning on a fog machine, so to speak.
Or making political speeches.
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Obscurantism sounds like a conscious attempt to make understanding difficult ... Or making political speechesThe Bush campaign puts out a regular report on John Kerry's stumperizing known as "the Boston Fog". But, some say, after the debate last night, the fog has lifted. The "Boston Fog" reminds me of "bomfog" which doesn't have anything to do with "fog" exactly. Nelson Rockefeller used to end all his speeches with the homily "in the brotherhood of man in the fatherhood of God". The press tired of this after awhile so they acronymed it "bomfog" [which really should be written "bomfoG", I suppose]. Of course, "bomfog" isn't "spin" which is "obscurantism" practised as a political art. "Spin" spins you around so you end up looking in another direction. "Bomfog" just rolls over you and puts you to sleep. The best example of "spin" last night came not from the Presidential contenders but rather at the end of CNN's coverage of that "debate" from the President's leading spinmeister. During his presentation, the President had said [or clearly implied, I can't remember which] that the U.S. had "locked up" the infamous black-marketeer who had sold nuclear technologies to Iran and North Korea. Twice, at the end of CNN's coverage, Wolf Blitzer asked the President's spinmeister if it was accurate to say that this black-marketeer was "locked up" when he was roaming freely all over Pakistan. Twice the spinmeister in reply said that the black-marketeer's trading in Weapons of Mass Destruction was "shattered" and the Bush Administration had also achieved success in closing down Libya's WMD arsenal. Wolf didn't have time to ask the question a third time. Now that's spinmeistery at its best!
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Edit: Quote provided by themilum... President Bush: " And we've been effective. We busted the A.Q. Khan network. This was a proliferator out of Pakistan that was selling secrets to places like North Korea and Libya. We convinced Libya to disarm. " Take note grapho, Bush did not say "locked up". Wolf Blitzer said "locked up. And you, grapho, eagerly perpetuated the CNN spin. Will you now please apologize to we good folk on this board? _______________________________________________ Great idea, grapho, let's semantically dissect the debate last night. I'll go second... What exactly did Kerry mean when he used the term " Global Test"? As in... John Kerry: " But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons." Who, for god-help-us example, adjudicates this " Global Test"? Jeez! 
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Who … adjudicates this "Global Test"?
The people of the Globe.
We're all in this together, white boy.
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Don't call me "boy", Faldage,  call me curious. Does the Kerrian term "global test" resonate pleasingly to your keen politically educated ears?
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Will you now please apologize to we good folk on this board?themilum, I do apologize for echoing Wolf Blizter in saying "locked up" when the President said "busted up". Back at home, when the police make a "bust", the bad guys end up in "lock up". In Pakistan, the "bad guys" end up roaming the country with Osama Bin Laden. If that means we have "busted up" their terrorism, without actually "locking them up", then I apologize for my imprecision.
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without consulting a barometer
Let's make it a real test .. without consultng a barometer, and without consulting the sky.
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Ah grapho, grapho! You just won't go willingly to your proper gaffe fate. Yes of course, "to bust" means to arrest a single person, but "to bust up" means "to break up", as in a gang. But you knew that, grapho, now didn't you? So why do you feel the necessity to mealy-mouth your apology to these upstanding erudite people here on this word-parsing board? Can you not simply say... ___________________________________"I have spinned, my brethern, but now I repent?"
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Can you not simply say ... "I have spinned, my brethern, but now I repent?"
"Consider the lilies of the field", themilum. "They toil not, neither do they spin."
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upstanding erudite people here on this word-parsing board?
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upstanding erudite people here on this word-parsing board? Errugo again, Grapho. [Just funnin' with ya, Carps. ]
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Remember back, graho, back in '82, when you by trickery won the one-upmanship trophy of the graduating class of Springfield High? Well, you graho, are still the king, I give up. 
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re "trickery won the one-upmanship trophy ... Well, you grapho, are still the kingWell, thank you, themilum ... [I think  ]. BTW how do you win a one-upmanship trophy by "trickery"? If your one-upping isn't on the up and up, how can anyone judge it? I think you're thinking of the come-uppance trophy, themilum.
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Can you not simply say ... "I have spinned ..."Not without putting any spin on it, themilum. BTW here's a comprehensive definition of "spin" from today's Independent of London. Headline: "The operation went according to plan. Shame about the spin" "Spin is briefing journalists so that they report, without attribution, messages the Government wants put across but does not want to say. Spin is suggesting to journalists the coded messages in what was actually said. Spin is putting a gloss on the facts, turning a deficit into a surplus, and previously announced spending into "new" money. It is repackaging old policies into new ones."http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/media/story.jsp?story=568245For the latest on Paris, visit "Confessions of an Heirhead". We put it out when Paris puts out.
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