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#131121 08/05/04 01:01 PM
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but isn't grotesque from grotto?

Actually grotesque is from the French and describes a kind of decorative art, the French word is from the Italian grottesca with the same meaning < grottesco 'concerning grottos' < grotta 'an artificial or natrual cave' which is ultimately from Greek krupte 'crypt, vault' < kruptos 'hidden, secret'.


#131122 08/05/04 05:32 PM
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In England, spelled grotty and prnounced grotty (English - not grahdy, though USians, were they to use it, might well say it that way). Means pretty much what Ted said - particularly about physically dirty - hence (despite the temptation to see it as correct), my slight suspicion that it might not be derived from grotesque.

cheer

the sunshine warrior


#131123 08/05/04 06:02 PM
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from http://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/

grot
noun 1. filth: Wipe that grot off. 2. a filthy person. [backformation from grotty]


grotty
adjective 1. dirty; filthy. 2. of poor quality; nasty. [originally British slang (1960s); alteration of grotesque + -y; apparently originally Liverpool slang, and first widely popularised by The Beatles; the earliest record of this word is from the Beatles movie A Hard Day's Night which was released in 1964



#131124 08/06/04 11:56 AM
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Grotty - first thing that struck me was clumped mascara. Don't ask..

I recently learnt that 'grotesque' is also a noun for an ugly figure or shape. When used in this sense however, it apparently is still not a synonym for gargoyle. Haven't yet found out the difference between the two words. Many here will surely know. Do tell...


#131125 08/06/04 10:32 PM
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pronounced grotty

So just how is that O pronounced? This USn wouldn't pronounce it like, e.g., German grohtie.


#131126 08/07/04 01:26 AM
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Pronounced with a short "o" as ion "pot". In the Upper Colonies, grotty is applied to nearly anything that isn't very pleasant. "Geez, look at that grotty park bench. It's covered with birdshit!" or "Look at the grotty weather .. it's chucking it down again." Or it can be applied to how you feel ... "Bloody cold. I've been feeling grotty for days.". And I've always fondly imagined it came directly from "grotesque".


#131127 08/07/04 01:02 PM
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So just how is that O pronounced? This USn wouldn't pronounce it like, e.g., German grohtie.

I've always heard it pronounced /'grat:i:/. Are you thinking of the Val Girl groady (sp?) /'gro:di/ as in "Groady to the max; I'm sure; it's like totally nauseating; like barf out; gag me with a spoon!"? [Moon Unit Zappa in Frank's song Valley Girl] Google shows groady, groddy, and grody.


#131128 08/07/04 01:32 PM
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/'gro:di/

I'll go with that. I remember hearing it when the Valley Girls weren't even glints in their daddies' eyes. I've never heard /'grat:i:/, but then I don't get out much.


#131129 08/07/04 08:40 PM
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I've never heard /'grat:i:/

you've never seen Hard Day's Night?



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#131130 08/07/04 09:22 PM
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OK, so I don't *remember ever hearing /'gra:ti/. Besides, I'm supposed to take the pronunciation of a bunch of Scousers as an example?


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