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BYB talks about his grandmother's ability to rise above her lack of education.
I've heard of a number of similar situations from the turn of the 20th century here in New Zealand - minimal schooling, but what they got really stuck. I think that may have something to do with societal values which are heartfelt rather than simply parroted.
My grandmother (on my mother's side) was born into a wealthy upper class family and received an expensive private education. Boy, could she write. But education breeds free thinking and she was also a very free thinker. My mother, who was pretty open to ideas, looked like a radical conservative alongside her.
On the other side of the family, my paternal grandmother wrote extremely neatly, but couldn't string two words together. She'd had primary schooling only. But then (and I hope to Gawd my father never reads this), she was not a paragon of intellectual excellence.
My maternal grandmother lived with us for a number of years during my childhood and introduced me to all kinds of concepts. The house always seemed much emptier when she went to visit her other children. I credit her with imbuing me with what little intellectual curiosity I possess.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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xara wrote : I think that many of the problems with the youth of today stem from a lack of respect.Bob's grandmother was certainly taught to respect her parents, her school teachers and her employer.
Ah, the differences in a few generations. I think that children were more terrified than respectful in many cases. Teachers could hit you if you got it wrong, well into the mid-1950s. My handwriting improved with practice after Sister whacked my knuckles a few times with a ruler!
But children are resilient creatures and I think the children who did well, my parents among them, had a THIRST TO LEARN. They wanted to know.
As to jobs, you could be fired for looking at the boss wrong. Without a reference from an employer you had a hard time finding another job. There were no ombudsman offices to help.
To rise out of poverty you had to KNOW how things were done, how to say things correctly. You HAD to learn!
With radio very rudimentary there was not the immediate blast of information that we get now on TV.
So you read books, listened to your "betters' and learned!
Books were beyond the means of many and it was through libraries that many learned of the wider world. Libraries and newspapers. Support them both!
It was not until after WWII that there was a more international flavor to every day knowledge. Men came back from foreign places and brought back new words, new foods, new ways of thought. We learned a lot about geography and differing cultures during the war which included both Asian and European worlds.
This ramble isn't going anywhere unless I write a book and I'm sure you're all weary of my going on and on.
I stick with the THIRST TO LEARN rationale.
Aloha
wow
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In reply to:
Teachers could hit you if you got it wrong, well into the mid-1950s. My handwriting improved with practice after Sister whacked my knuckles a few times with a ruler!
Agreed. Back then, "getting it wrong" included using the left hand to write with. When I was in Form 2 (Grade 6?), one of my teachers had personal recollection of such "correction."
On the subject of declining education, I think that most who post here would share similar views on the state of educational philosophy today. I am just profoundly grateful to have been raised by a bookish single Dad, who taught all his kids to read before they started school. My maternal grandparents played their part as well. If I asked "can I have (a lolly, dessert, whatever)", the response was always, "you can, but you must first ask 'may I'."
I guess that what I am trying to say is that I agre with your THIRST TO LEARN theory. I feel parents are still the best educational resource children have, and that when parents play their part well, even those of us without tertiary education need not feel "unlearned and ignorant."
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Max said: I guess that what I am trying to say is that I agre with your THIRST TO LEARN theory. I feel parents are still the best educational resource children have, and that when parents play their part well, even those of us without tertiary education need not feel "unlearned and ignorant."
Max, tertiary education is a system, not a guaranteed path to knowledge. I was an academic for several years (before I decided that filthy lucre was important, after all), and I reckon that I learned as much from my students, who were mostly adult, as they learned from me.
The nice thing about teaching adults is that they are there to learn. You don't have to get them to pay attention. You don't have to keep them in after class to learn their times tables. Many of my students came from economically disadvantaged backgrounds. Quite a number of them asked me "how do I learn?", since it was the first time since school that they had been in an educational institution as students. I was always pretty hard-put to think of what to say. They had come a long way - learned the need to learn - just to be there.
Tertiary education provides a framework in which to study and the resources to do so. If you can provide your own framework and have access to a good library, you don't need tertiary institutions at all, unless the piece of paper at the end is your main goal.
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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Max, tertiary education is a system, not a guaranteed path to knowledge.No argument here. My decision to leave the formal education system at the end of 5th form, while provoking much hand-wringing from well-meaning teachers and principals, was a life choice, not a criticism of tertiary education. I simply had other things I wanted to do with my life . The sort of avenues I would have trod had I entered the land of dreaming spires would not have been particularly practical from a career-enhancement perspective anyhow. I do not regret not attending a tertiary institute, nor do I feel any need to be defensive about my choice, as odd as it seems to many people. 
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it was the first time since school that they had been in an educational institution as students. I was always pretty hard-put to think of what to say. They had come a long way - learned the need to learn - just to be there.
[admiration icon]It says a lot about you that you recognized that fact, C.K.
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nor do I feel any need to be defensive about my choice, as odd as it seems to many people.
[Envying independence icon] You're special all right, sweet Max.
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Reasons for the decline of English teaching
On my way to the office this morning I was listening to a radio talk show, the subject under discussion being the recent election fiasco in Florida. One of the "expert" guest panelists, a professor somewhere, who was addressed by the show hostess as "Doctor", said (and I heard it with my own ears), "What Jeb Bush told the press this morning is disingenius." sighing emoticon Maybe education needs to be reformed frm the top down. Used to be that you had to have a pretty good overall education, and you certainly had to know English well-nigh perfectly, to be granted a PhD from any reputable institution.
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Used to be that you had to have a pretty good overall education, and you certainly had to know English well-nigh perfectly, to be granted a PhD from any reputable institution.When I registered for my thesis, I got a flood of flyers from would-be professional proofreaders. How times have changed! 
The idiot also known as Capfka ...
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>I agree with your THIRST TO LEARN theory. I feel parents are still the best educational resource children have ...
My current worry about my own children is that they aren't thirsty to learn. In fact they are "all museum-ed out". When they were younger they had so much cultural education that now they just want to shop and "chill out". They thought that all trains ran on steam, all steets were cobbled, the Vikings were around just a few years ago ...
My daughter's teacher asked if anyone had been to an art gallery. "Yes," yawned my eldest "the Tate, Tate Modern in London, the Musee d'Orsay in Paris, the Miro and Picasso museums in Barcelona, ... endless Museums of Modern Art, yawn, yawn". She didn't ask again!
Give me adults any day! I wonder if you only start appreciating things when you escape formal education. I'm sure that I took the line of least resistance to good exam results, rather than subjects that actually interested me. Tertiary education (in maths) was, wastefully, just clocking up another paper qualification, rather than making any great discoveries They do say that history and English as subjects are wasted on the young. So many subjects come alive once you get to make your own choices of how you spend your time. I just hope I don't exhaust my own children before they get to that stage!
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