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#125534 03/20/04 09:32 PM
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Here's a truly worthless word:(from poetry glossary)
PANTOUM
A poem in a fixed form, consisting of a varying number of 4-line stanzas with lines rhyming alternately; the second and fourth lines of each stanza are repeated to form the first and third lines of the succeeding stanza, with the first and third lines of the first stanza forming the second and fourth of the last stanza, but in reverse order, so that the opening and closing lines of the poem are identical.
Sidelight: The pantoum is derived from the Malayan pantun, which follows the same rhyme and line patterns but differs in some other respects. In the pantun, which is traditionally improvised, the theme or meaning is conveyed in the second two lines of each quatrain, while the first two lines present an image or allusion which may or may not have an obvious connection with the theme.



#125535 07/09/04 10:31 PM
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And it was after failing to improvise the pantoum that he invented the pantoumime.

(with insincere apologies and a small, rather sheepish smirk)


#125536 07/24/04 01:57 AM
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It's hardly a useless word. In fact, it becomes essential when a couple or more poets gather and discuss a pantoum written or read by any of those present. I, myself, have written a pantoum or two, and have discussed the pantoums written by my peers and predecessors.

Victor Hugo and Charles Baudelaire found the form interesting enough to produce enough pantoums to start a trend in the nineteenth century.

In recent years, poets Carolyn Kizer and John Ashbery have produced, respectively, "Parent's Pantoum" and "Pantoum".

Perhaps pantoum is an obscure term of art, but in its own little corner of the world, it remains an essential word which performs the function of naming a lively and useful form.

Namaste.


#125537 07/24/04 09:45 AM
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The word is new to me... Welcome, Poeta. Would you please post an example?


#125538 07/27/04 02:12 AM
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Happy to share. I can't post a poem for which I don't own usage rights. Hugo and Baudelaire wrote in French, most English translations are recent and thus have active copyrights, as do Ashbery's and Kizer's poems. As for websites who have published pantoums, I assume that this website has the same policy any good website has: don't link to other sites without their permission.

Here's how to find a pantoum worth reading: the following search terms yielded good results for me on Google. If you follow one or two of the resulting links, you'll find an example by Hugo. I liked the site by Greg Barta.

poem pantoum "Victor Hugo" translation

Good hunting.



#125539 07/27/04 09:56 AM
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I assume that this website has the same policy any good website has: don't link to other sites without their permission.

I've never heard that one. Have all the search engines gotten blanket permission to link from every public site on the web?

Or, you could post a French original for which the copyright has expired and either translate it yourself or let one of our French speakers translate it.


Or (I just reread your first post [welcome, BTW]) you could post one of your own. We'll promise not to rip it to shreds.

#125540 07/27/04 11:07 AM
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I assume that this website has the same policy any good website has: don't link to other sites without their permission.

this is patently ridiculous; of the 100s of sites that have linked to wwftd over the years, only a handful have asked my permission.* I doubt that the sort of links that get posted here on almost a daily basis have resulted in much cause for concern at headquarters.

or..

I guess there are darn few "good websites".

*otoh, I've only asked two or three to remove their links for one reason or another.


#125541 09/11/04 01:59 PM
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Stunning. I just read this thread and this is the first time I've ever read about a linking permission issue. Creepy. I certainly hope there's not much to it.

"And it was after failing to improvise the pantoum that he invented the pantoumime."

...and I wonder what the pantoumime horse would look like in this particular case?


#125542 02/15/05 12:08 AM
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with feet striking alternately; the second and fourth feet of each stride are repeated to form the first and third steps of the succeeding stride, with the first and third steps of the first stride forming the second and fourth of the last stride, but in reverse order


I don't know what a pantoumime horse would look like but it's hellish to ride!


#125543 02/22/05 04:26 PM
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I found this link which helped a lot:

http://www.noggs.dsl.pipex.com/vf/pantoum.htm



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