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Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
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There is a good article in our paper today, by a college prof. in Toronto. Here is the crux:
Gaidosch said students' inability to express themselves clearly in writing is a three-pronged problem.
As a teacher with 28 years of classroom experience, Gaidosch has watched his students' writing proficiency steadily decline.
As a business consultant, he has heard employers' complaints steadily increase. They say too many young job applicants, even those with college degrees, lack the basic verbal skills necessary to thrive in a corporate environment.
As a concerned educator who has spent a lot of time trying to figure out what went wrong, he believes that our school systems, Canada's and the United States' alike, are primarily to blame for overemphasizing multiple-choice tests and other ways of measuring mere information regurgitation. http://www.courier-journal.com/features/2004/02/24/writing1.html
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I think that the prof is wrong, in that we are now able to
measure reading skills of large numbers of students, in ways not available when the prof was young. Nobody even tried to do large scale reading skill testing when I was young. And when I was young, troublemakers got kicked out
of school. Now we warehouse troublemakers and so teachers can give less time to the students that need it.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
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and he is partial right! i know i have come to depend on spell check (and my writing here shows how much, i never use enigma!)
when you apply of job, you have to be able to write information on the application. with out spell and grammer check, many people are incapable of writing. (i can do it, but i recognize the effort it takes!)
there is a generation behind my kids (now in mid/late 20's) who use IM short hand all the time (we've had thread on some IM short hand R U OK? I 8 out last night. sort of stuff. they are so used to using it, they, sometimes let it slip into 'formal writing' or make mistakes like i eight out last night! --don't laugh- i have seen it!
it might well be that 8 (for ate) will someday be acceptable... language changes. but for now..
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Joined: Mar 2000
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
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Wait a moment. I would not entirely trust a professor who uses expressions like three-pronged problem to improve student's writing skills. A metaphor can be a double-edged sword  .
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Here in Virginia, students must pass muliple choice type tests to cover reading comprehension and academic achievement in addition to writing tests. A big percentage of my instructional time goes to the teaching of strategies for writing essays, and much of my time away from school goes to the grading and responses to those essays. I would imagine in those states in which academic programs are strong, the writing test--not a multiple choice test in any way--is well in place. Rubrics are used to score the tests with the three main domains for scoring covering compositional skills such as organizational format, written expression skills such as word choice, and mechanics such as spelling.
I have felt successful with about 60-70% of my students this year, a percentage I know is by far too low. But it has not been for lack of effort since I have worked 13- to 14-hour days at school this year and am home now simply because of an injury.
I would invite anyone who cavalierly criticizes the teaching profession to join our ranks with energy, enthusiasm, and determination to make a difference in the lives of our future writers. Teachers have not given up--they continue to sacrifice time well beyond contract hours to help their students improve. I have not found the answer in making students who refuse to work do so, but I also will not admit that there is no answer.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I would invite anyone who cavalierly criticizes the teaching profession to join our ranks with energy, enthusiasm, and determinationhear, hear!! 
formerly known as etaoin...
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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One of my deepest sorrows is that I failed to go back and
thank the many wonderful teachers I had who helped me so
much, and got paid peanuts.It is always later than you think.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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veteran
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veteran
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Posts: 1,526 |
I don't cavalierly criticize the teaching profession, but I do criticize teachers individually and collectively when I think it needs to be done.
If I had to roughly (very roughly) ascribe blame for failure:
90% students and their parents
9% teachers
1% the "system"
(Of course, any particular cause might not reflect this.)
There are legion of disadvantages a child might have - being poor, being blind, being slow. Among the worst, though, is having idiots for parents. This said, I've known - and know - a number of teachers who are ostensibly dedicated to students, but who are utterly incompetent. Ten hours a day or 24 hours per day in the classroom would make no difference.
I've considered leaving my current profession and becoming a teacher. My wife has stated outright she would divorce me. It would be a huge pay cut, but moreover, it seems to me I'd be put on the same pay scale as a person with no experience. I might even have to get another master's degree (not sure on this one). A teacher switching to a computer related field would not have near the hassle, assuming he already possessed the required knowledge. Still, I do what I can.
1) I monitor my own kids' educations and fill in gaps
a. I read to my own kids.
b. I talk to them regularly about different topics, some of which they discuss in school, and others of which they don't.
c. I tell them that having an abysmal teacher is no excuse for their not trying. If anything, when you have an imbecile for a teacher, you have to work harder.
d. I kick them in the butt when they need it, but I'm also willing to kick the teachers and administrators in the butt when they need it. (A teacher has to be really seriously screwed up for me to get involved. "So and so is mean" or "She's so unfair!" is dealt with by a single response - "You go talk to so and so.")
2) I tutor students and teachers.
a. I've helped students learn: physics, algebra, geometry, programming.
b. I've mentored high school students
c. I've coordinated other mentors and tutors. (Who are pretty universally pissed off, because the parents let the kids get away with making appointments for free tutoring and then not showing up.)
d. Currently I'm tutoring an entire class - including the teacher - in java.
This is the first time I've tutored avanced students. I get 1 to 5 problems a week via email that I solve and answer - usually within a few hours. I also go out to the class and give lectures on specific topics, but only rarely. About 5 to 7 times this year.
I could talk about this endlessly, but that's enough for now.
k
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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and I think I've said it before on these boards, Fal, that I wish I had more students with parents like you!
formerly known as etaoin...
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear FF: Too bad that too few parents share your values.
Far too many parents expect teachers to make up for the parents' contributing nothing to the education of their
children. I was a school doctor for a year, and I saw some
sad sack parents. One mother even wrote a letter to the
principal complaining that her son's teacher was not
teaching him good manners!
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear FF:
It is too easy for many to criticize automatically, without great effort of thought, American education--there is such a wide field to which to put that knee-jerk, critical mental power with too often ill-thought-out remedies and judgments that will not be possible to carry out in the classroom. More of a challenge would be to identify the practices that are in place that are working toward improving education. It is too easy to simply say what we need more of when there is such a resistance to identifying what could be cut. It is very difficult to make categorical statements about American education when there are such alarmingly wide differences among school systems, some systems that are even in the same geographical region.
Let me address what I view as positive measures in education. State standards and testing of those standards improve student testing in all areas. Where school systems are held accountable for a certain percentage of students passing state standard tests in order to be accredited schools, student performance improves overall, teachers have a well-defined curriculum they must cover each year, and parents can review this curriculum to either question individual standards or reinforce them at home. Although I cannot agree with the appropriateness of every Virginia standard, I am encouraged that these standards are works in progress that do change over time.
Electronic grading systems are a boon to educators, students, and parents. With the software programs in place, a teacher nearly instantly can identify students' averages as soon as any grade is entered, students can see on the printouts exactly where their strengths and weaknesses lie, and teachers can easily provide parents with an indvidual student printout whenever necessary. We can track student progress by the hour, if necessary. Computerized grade reporting systems elevate reporting to an objective level that helps students and teachers know more specifically where the work should be improved.
Open communication between parents and teachers is a positive force for improved student performance. Everyone benefits when the dialogue is open and for the student's best interests. One obstacle to the level of communication is time. Out of my 30 students who would greatly benefit from regular communication of their parents with me, only about five have parents who are able to make that commitment. I do post on an education website where a few parents check in occasionally. I've had only 400 hits this year. Many parents simply do not believe they have the time to communicate regularly. However, I do know for a fact that parent involvement and commitment help improve student performance. It is not that the parents do the teaching, but that they make sure their children are following through on homework. Here I am specifically addressing students with a history of academic problems.
I might try to change completely back to music teaching next year because I worry about the kids I cannot force to work. You might be corect about teachers who are so incompetant in the classroom that 24 hours a day would not make any difference. I personally do not know a teacher who is that incompetant--unless it is I, to be very precise here. But if between now and contract time I should read an encouraging article, meet a teacher who inspires me to continue in this profession in which I do get to witness intellectual growth firsthand, speak with a parent who recognizes that growth in his child, or perhaps have a moment of spiritual claritas that instructs me not to give up, I might remain and continue to try to help one more Johnny write better. As passionate as you are about education, you should join our ranks where passion, intelligence, and endurance matter.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear WW: I remember reading that some very large employers
have found it desirable to have their own remedial education programs for new young employees. Perhaps the
teachers so employed might have some useful comments to make.
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veteran
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veteran
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I agree that there is a lot of knee-jerk criticism, but not all the criticisms are knee-jerk criticisms, and not all the remedies suggested by critics are impossible to implement. In some cases at least "impossible" translates to "is contrary to a socio-political objective that sounds good on paper and REALLY good in sound bites."
I agree technology has helped a little. Computerized grading can save the time of averaging scores. I'm not entirely sure about the objectivity of it. The reporting may be objective, but the grades from which the reporting is derived is collected from teachers grading individual papers. Time consuming and very subjective in most cases. OTOH, subjective does not mean bad. Also, the computer generated report card gives me feedback like "Your child usually meets or exceed the POS blah blah blah." This is okay, but it's what I would expect from straight As and Bs. That is, I don't see that this is giving me any more information.
Some other things I think are handy are phones in the classroom and email. I communicate with my kids' teachers all the time (going to do it today as a matter of fact).
Also, the technology OF teaching has improved - teachers seem better organized (usually), there's actually days dedicated to planning, and in the early grades, they send home these folders (which I find more useful than the computerized grading). Plus, they give the kids planning books and teach them strategies for homework. Also, they have classes for parents. Unfortunately, these classes seem largely populated by parents who don't need them. (More on this later.)
Technology is great, but it can only augment and not replace the relationship between a good teacher and room full of attentive students.
We agree about the SOLs. OTOH, what I have witnessed from many teachers and principles with regard to SOLs is an attempt through the use of not too subtle language to undermine the tests in the minds of parents - even to incite parents and students. (This is of course not to imply that the SOLs should be criticized.)
Communication with parents is one of the great successes of our education system so far as I can see. Well, sort of. Teachers are pretty good at sending home "information," but all to often they're sending home a bunch of crap which I have to wade through to find useful stuff. Sometimes this "crap" they send home is really condescending advice to parents. It used to annoy me, but then I realized there are parents who really need some kind of help. This will be a lot better when all communication is done electronically so we don't get swamped by paper. OTOH, I went to an "open house" at my older daughter's middle school and stopped by to talk to each teacher. I came to her home ec teacher and asked how she was doing. The teacher said she was doing fine and then began discussing how the class was a bit noisy at times. This sounded a little weird as unlike the younger kid, my older one is a real wallflower. So I asked "So Amy is blabbing a lot in class?" "Oh, NO! I didn't mean to say that. It's just that it IS a boistrous class. Mr. Green, the problem with these function is that the parents who really NEED to come, don't."
While, the schools are doing, imo, a pretty good job (with excellent improvement) with communicating to us parents, we parents in general are not availing ourselves of the opportunity. The problem here is CRYSTAL clear. People talk about the desire for an "education" for their children the same way they talk about the desire for a million bucks. That is, they want it, if it doesn't require them to do any work. "Yes, I too would like to be thin in 10 minutes a day and I too would like to make 30 to 50,000 dollars in my spare time." With a few exceptions, the parents I see complaining the most aren't the ones who are actively involved with their kids' schooling.
Now, reference to kids you cannot force to work - see here is a critical difference between how you view things and how I view things. If I were in a class where there were kids I could not force to work, it wouldn't have a big impact on my decision to stay. I would take steps to fix that, but I wouldn't let it prevent me from reaching the kids I COULD reach. There would come a point I would recite to myself, "Experience is a dear teacher, but fools will learn at no other." OTOH, not working and disrupting are two different things.
One of the most profoundly stupid things about modern teaching is the reluctance that many teachers have to get rid of disruptive kids. I don't blame this entirely on teachers. I saw a set of rules one time - an enumeration of steps that a teacher must take - it's staggering, really. And you can't just DO it, you have to document each and every step, as if one doesn't any other function. First, I've witnessed this myself. I've gone into classrooms and witnessed students being abusive to teachers who refused to do anything. Second, the biggest regular complaint I get from both of my kids is that there are often so many people in the classes who are talking that they can't hear the teacher or do their work or even think. (My youngest's teacher has really greatly improved in this. He's only been teaching a few years. Back when my oldest had him, he let the students walk all over him - about which fact she continually lamented.)
As for incompetent teachers, I can only say that I have attended at least 9 schools in my K-12 years. My parents put this number at 14. (They say I went to 8 schools in 2nd grade, but I only remember 3 of them. This partly explains why I took it twice.) I've been to a number of schools. I'd say most of the teachers were okay, some few were dazzlingly brilliant, and in every single school I encountered people of submarginal competence.
I met a few marginal ones in my kids' elementary school, but none I would say is outright incompetent. At the middle school, however, I've encountered one who was outright incompetent (he was also a bald-faced liar and a general imbecile). He's amazingly popular with some kids. (Most kids and many teachers and teachers don't distinguish between popularity and quality.)
What do they care if what they're learning is wrong? There are other cases, too - teachers who give the kids busy work and then go out in the hall and talk to other teachers during the class. (No kidding - my daughter was so irritated with this she began taking notes on when the teacher left the room and came back. She begged me not to go to the principal about it, which I didn't, but wanted me to know what was going on.)
I don't judge people as incompetent because they don't know certain things - even core things in their field. I don't judge people as incompetent because my kids don't like them or even because I don't like them. I don't judge any starting teacher as incompetent and I don't judge any teacher who's pushing into a new subject area as incompetent. It takes a bit of effort to convince me that someone really doesn't know what he's doing or doesn't care enough to do it well.
k
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