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#119661 - 01/12/04 05:28 PM Grail  
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lautreamont Offline
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I am reading a book in english with the title "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and I was hoping that some of you fine english speaking folks would give me an idea of with the word grail means to the English speaker. Thank You

Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119662 - 01/12/04 05:38 PM Re: Grail  
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Grail to me has always meant first a chalice or cruet in which Joseph of Aramathia caught the blood of the crucified Jesus in European Christian legend, and second, a sort of dish that is always full of food from some older Celtic legends. HB, HG is a fun read as long as you don't take it too seriously. The authors play pretty fast and loose with history, and the border between their imagination and history and even legend is pretty fuzzy. I enjoyed it the same way I do various conspiracy theories of history and/or UFOlogistical books: i.e., as a genre of fiction. There is a Yahoo Group that is dedicated to the book and its sequels. [NB: The above is the opinion of a secular humanist and is not meant to disparage anybody elese's beliefs.]


#119663 - 01/12/04 05:41 PM Re: Grail  
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with out consulting a dictionary, i would say GRAIL is a word the refers to a wine goblet, specifically the one used by jesus at the last supper.

(which is why you almost always see grail paired with holy.)

the existence of the goblet jesus used is mythical--and in some myths (english ones) its to be found in england. in the indiana jones movie, the grail was to be found in what looked like etheopia, (or north west africa somewhere).

there are many myths associated with the holy grail, (healing powers, etc).


#119664 - 01/12/04 05:42 PM Re: Grail  
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In the book The DaVinci Code the author plays around with the word as Sangreal, dividing it San Greal, Holy Grail, and Sang Real, Royal Blood.


#119665 - 01/12/04 05:43 PM Re: Grail  
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> a secular humanist

I likes yah more and more, nuncle :)


#119666 - 01/13/04 01:59 PM Re: Grail [spoilers for HB, HG!]  
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This is, of course, one of the main premises of the HB, HG book(s). That the name of the vessel is a mistake. What the initiated are really talking about is the Merovingian bloodline that originated when Jesus faked his crucifiction, married Mary Magdalene, and high-tailed it to Southwestern France to raise a family.

Nobody has ever come up with a suitable or commonly agreed upon etymology for grail.


#119667 - 01/14/04 12:33 AM Re: Grail [spoilers for HB, HG!]  
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. What the initiated are really talking about is the Merovingian bloodline that originated when Jesus faked his crucifiction, married Mary Magdalene, and high-tailed it to Southwestern France to raise a family.

You know, you could get to like the guy if this were true. Makes him kinda, um, human!


#119668 - 01/14/04 12:46 AM Re: Grail [spoilers for HB, HG!]  
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From the Internet:"
The Grail was sought by the knights of King Arthur in several medieval romances, the earliest of which was the late-twelfth-century Perceval by Chretien de Troyes. The quest for the Grail, which can only be found by a hero free from sin, is treated at length in the Morte d’Arthur (circa 1469) of Sir Thomas Malory and in Wolfram von Eschenbach's epic, Parzifal (circa 1210), which inspired the German composer Richard Wagner's opera Parsifal (1877-82). See Glastonbury, Templars and Merlin.




#119669 - 01/14/04 01:21 AM Re: Grail [spoilers for HB, HG!]  
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Americans have a very differnt idea of what most of the peope I talk to belive it is. We are quite certian here that is no cup. This is very interestiing.. I finished the book and it was a good read I wunder where these men get there ideas from. I cannot prove them wrogn but it would be interesting to see how much one could prove.

Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119670 - 01/14/04 04:42 AM Re: Grail  
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Rio Grande, Cape May County, N...
I am Le Compte De Le Holy Grail and you have been waiting for me.

Drink up.


#119671 - 01/14/04 09:26 PM Re: Grail  
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lautreamont Offline
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David je suis sыr que vous savez que le graal n'est pas un endroit et vous ne pouvez pas кtre un compte d'un objet. Je suis dit de voir que vous n'avez pas su cela. Aussi j'ai apprйciй un droit de passage takers noлl vous devez йcrire encore

Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119672 - 01/14/04 09:38 PM Re: Grail  
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Comte,
What's the Czech word for "troll"?


#119673 - 01/14/04 10:02 PM Re: Grail [spoilers for HB, HG!]  
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Americans have a very differnt idea of what most of the peope I talk to belive it is. We are quite certian here that is no cup.

I gave a couple of choices besides cup. Let's see what R S Loomis, an arthurian scholar, has to say: "The Grail may be described as the dish from which Christ ate the Passover lamb at the last supper; or as the chalice of the first sacrament, in which later the Savior's blood was caught as it flowed from his wounded body; or as a stone with miraculous feeding and youth-preserving virtues; or as a salver containing a man's head, swimming in blood. It may be borne through a castle hall by a beautiful damsel; or it may float through the air in Arthur's palace, veiled in white samite; or it may be placed on a table in the East, together with a freshly caught fish, and serve as a talisman to distinguish the chaste from the unchaste. Its custodian may be called Bron or Anfortas or Pelles or Joseph of Arimethia or simply the 'Fisher King'." [Loomis, The Grail: From Celtic Myth to Christian Symbol, p.2]

So, you see, it could be a lot of things. In the end, it is unknowable, but folks sure do like to talk and write about. And there is a big difference between what people think something is and what it may or may not be. Ask most people who Cinderella is and you get the Disney version of the Charles Perrault story. There are more than a hundred versions of this folktale. BTW, in the original Perrault version the the step sister cuts off her toe to fit into the slipper, and there's still a controversy about the vair/ver/verre slipper being made of glass or fur.


#119674 - 01/15/04 01:36 AM Re: Grail  
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the word for troll is флорфф

Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119675 - 01/15/04 01:42 AM Re: three billy goats, gruff...  
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Old MacDonald had a farm,
флорфф,
and on his farm...



formerly known as etaoin...
#119676 - 01/15/04 02:42 AM Re: three billy goats, gruff...  
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lautreamont Offline
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sorry I did not know that would not support other keys

Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119677 - 01/15/04 11:33 AM Re: three billy goats, gruff...  
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that's ok, mathman, I just saw that string of letters and the old saw came to mind...



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#119678 - 01/16/04 01:43 PM Re: Grail  
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vous ne pouvez pas кtre un compte d'un objet. - le compte d'un objet, c'est un (1). C'est vite comptй, Monsieur le comte.


#119679 - 01/16/04 01:56 PM Re: Grail  
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I kind of guessed that French wasn't his first language. And I have a feeling that Czech isn't either.

#119680 - 01/16/04 02:05 PM ESL  
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I taught English as a Second Language for many years. I also speak other languages. So I am fairly well acquainted with errors made by students. I have a lot of trouble believing that this post:

I am reading a book in english with the title "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and I was hoping that some of you fine english speaking folks would give me an idea of with the word grail means to the English speaker.

and this one:

Americans have a very differnt idea of what most of the peope I talk to belive it is. We are quite certian here that is no cup. This is very interestiing.. I finished the book and it was a good read I wunder where these men get there ideas from. I cannot prove them wrogn but it would be interesting to see how much one could prove.

were both committed by the same person who says he's been learning English for a year now. The first is perfect (except for capitalization); the second has mostly spelling errors; grammar and syntax are fine.

What's the story, Count?


#119681 - 01/16/04 07:44 PM Re: ESL  
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Thanks, ASp. I had thought that the structure of his English was too natural, save for spelling mistakes and typos, which could even have been introduced deliberately to try and convey the impression that the writer was just learning English. Perhaps le comte's web is getting a bit too tangled?


#119682 - 01/16/04 09:52 PM said  
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You peopel are very strange and from what i can tell not a very intelligent group with little other to do other than over analyze people. I am sorry that you americans cannot belive that it is increadabley easy to speak english. Also I find you talk is here rather bland. Also I had been told of this web site in england while they where making fun of what was talked about and you in ablitiy to hold conversation while using your won beliefs. I did not want to believe this about you fine americans, but as you always do so well you prove us europeans wrong and act like pompus asses. I can pretty much gauruntee that none of you have published much if you did I am sure you would not spend your time on this site with a gathering of fools. The fact is a do live in Prague and have my whole life and righ tnow I am writting an article for a city paper making a good deal of fun of this web site. be cause there is not much else you can say about it. Also your treatment of out siders is the worst I have ever ecounterd. I have decided that maybe one of you will read this realize that he or she is washed up and will leave this online circus and enter the real world of words a writing. Have any of you taken a step back and rad what is writtinen about on this site nothing can be talked about without someone making a stupid remark because that cant handle not being the smartist guy on the page is is halirous and i can assure you that I wil not waste anymore time trying to get any good info from this washed up library of fools ut instead will stop by and look when ever I need a laugh

Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119683 - 01/16/04 09:59 PM Re: ESL  
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Gezegde

.

U is peopel heel vreemd en van wat ik geen heel intelligente groep vertellen kan met weinig anderze behalve over analyseert mensen te doen. Ik ben droevig dat u amerikanen kan niet belive dat het increadabley is, die gemakkelijk is engels te spreken. Ook vind ik u hier liever flauw praat, is. Ook was ik van deze web-site in Engeland verteld terwijl zij waar makend plezier van wat werd gepraat ongeveer en u in ablitiy gesprek vast te houden terwijl gebruiken van je geloof gewonnen heeft. Ik wilde dit over u fijne amerikanen niet geloven, maar als u altijd zo goed u geloven wilde ons bewijst europeanen verkeerde en daad achtige pompus ezels. Ik kan mooi veel gauruntee dat geen van u veel gepubliceerd hebt indien u ik deed zekere ben u op deze plaats met een bijeenkomen van dwazen je tijd niet zou uitgeven. De feit is een in Praag leeft en mijn helemaal levens en righ heeft ik een artikel voor een stad papier maken een goede overeenkomst van plezier van deze web-site. reden, die er niet veel anders u is over het writting, is, kan zeggen. Ook is je behandeling van uit siders het slechtste, dat ik heb ooit ecounterd. Ik heb beslist dat misschien een van u dit lezen zult beseft dat hij of zij op gewassen is en deze online circus zal verlaten en zal binnengaan de echte wereld van woorden een schrijven. Heb enig van u genemenene een stap rug en rad wat writtinen ongeveer op deze plaats niets zijn kunnen gepraat worden ongeveer zonder iemand maken van een dome opmerking omdat die behandelen kan is de smartist Guy op de pagina is is halirous en ik u dat ik wil niet afval meer tijd proberen niet verzekeren kan enig goede info van deze gewast op bibliotheek van dwazen ut in plaats van wens te krijgenStop door en blik wanneer ooit ik nodig een lachen heb

Le Comte De Lautreamont





Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119684 - 01/16/04 10:03 PM Re: Grail  
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lautreamont Offline
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Вы люди являются очень странными и от того, с чем я могу сказать не очень интеллектуальную группу немного другим делать другой чем, анализируете людей. Я сожалею, что Вы, американцы не могут живо, что это является легким говорить по-английски. Также я нахожу, что Вы говорите, является здесь довольно мягким. Также мне сказали об этом вебсайте в Англии, в то время как они, где высмеивающий, о чем говорили и Вы в, чтобы держать беседу при использовании ваших выигранных верований. Я не хотел верить этому о Вас прекрасные американцы, но поскольку Вы всегда делаете, так хорошо Вы доказываете нас европейцы неправильно и акт подобно pompus задницам. Я могу в значительной степени gauruntee, что ни один из Вас не издал много, если бы Вы сделали я уверен, что Вы не тратили бы(не проводили бы) ваше время на этот участок(сайт) со сбором дураков. Факт-, действительно живут в Праге и имеют мою целую жизнь, и righ tnow я - writting статья(изделие) для городской бумаги, делающей большую забаву этого вебсайта. будет причина нет, очень еще Вы можете сказать об этом. Также ваша обработка(лечение) siders - худшее, которое я имею когда-либо Я решил, что возможно один из Вас будет читать, это понимает, что он или она выброшены на берег и оставят этот цирк онлайн и войдут в льный мир слов письмо. Имейте любого из Вас продвинутый назад и радиуса(радикала), что является о на этом участке(сайте), о ничем можно не говорить без кого - то сделавшего глупое замечание, потому что та ручка косяка, не являющаяся smartist парнем на странице - - и я могу уверить Вас, что я не трата(отходы) больше время, пробуя получить любую хорошую информацию от этого выбросило на берег библиотеку единого времени дураков, вместо этого зайдет и будет смотреть, когда когда-либо я нуждаюсь в смехе

Ле Комт Де Лотреамон




Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119685 - 01/16/04 10:21 PM blason populaire  
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Il n'йtait pas menteur, il avouait la vйritй et disait qu'il йtait cruel. Humains, avez-vous entendu? il ose le redire avec cette plume qui tremble! Ainsi donc, il est une puissance plus forte que la volontй... Malйdiction! La pierre voudrait se soustraire aux lois de la pesanteur? Impossible. Impossible, si le mal voulait s'allier avec le bien.


#119686 - 01/16/04 10:58 PM Re: blason populaire  
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Malйdiction! you spelled this word wrong .... but since I am an american ??? that speaks no french I should not know that so I am sorry

Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119687 - 01/16/04 11:00 PM Re: blason populaire  
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blason populaire .. one popular reputation preceeds ones self

Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119688 - 01/16/04 11:05 PM Idioten  
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Sie sind alle Idioten

Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119689 - 01/16/04 11:31 PM Re: blason populaire  
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You should take it up with the author I quoted, M. Isidore Ducasse aka Le Comte de Lautreamont. Les Chants de Maldoror, Chant 1, Strophe 3.


#119690 - 01/16/04 11:39 PM Re: blason populaire  
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isidore ducasse died when he was 24 you idiot

Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119691 - 01/16/04 11:39 PM in medias res  
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Das Techtelmechtel ist vorbei. Es ist mir scheißegal, mein Täubchen.


#119692 - 01/16/04 11:40 PM Re: blason populaire  
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Like I said, take it up with him! Draw your own conclusion.


#119693 - 01/17/04 01:16 AM Re: in medias res  
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Techtelmechtel you spelled this word wrong

Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119694 - 01/17/04 02:38 AM Re: in medias res  
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wrong

incorrectly.


excuse me, but I make no other claim than to be someone who enjoys talking about words, and making up wordplay, and a good(bad) joke now and then.
many of the regular posters are not from the US, though I happen to be.



formerly known as etaoin...
#119695 - 01/17/04 02:49 AM Re: in medias res  
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lautreamont, apparently our board of fare does not suit your appetite; and, since you decided to call us names, I think that we have had our fill "de Lard de le pays de Galles".

To the rest of the crew: I cannot tell you that you have to do any particular thing. But I would like to say that my opinion is that it would be best if there are no further responses to ugliness--it only seems to serve to bring more.

jheem, I'm sending you a PM.

#119696 - 01/17/04 05:13 PM Since it has been "said"...  
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You peopel are very strange Yeah, what else is new? and from what i can tell not a very intelligent group you need to dig a bit deeper to make this assesment with little other to do other than over analyze people.That's just because there are words attached to *them I am sorry that you americansWhile there may be a large number of "americans" here on this board, it is not appropriate or accurate to categorize everybody who posts here as having the same nationality (or even close) cannot belive that it is increadabley easy to speak english. Americans don't speak English, they speak American. Also I find you talk is here rather bland.It's just the way we like it. Also I had been told of this web site in england while they where making fun of what was talked about good to see they've joined the club and you in ablitiy to hold conversation This ain't a chat room. while using your won beliefs. This is what is commonly known as "the pot calling the kettle 'black'. I did not want to believe this about you fine americans, but as you always do so well you prove us europeans wrong and act like pompus asses. "americans" are too busy dealing with Asia to care much about Europe I can pretty much gauruntee that none of you have published much if you did I am sure you would not spend your time on this site with a gathering of fools.We all publish every day, right here. The fact is a do live in Prague and have my whole life and righ tnow I am writting an article for a city paper making a good deal of fun of this web site. be cause there is not much else you can say about it. Please provide a url link so we can all have some fun, as well. Also your treatment of out siders is the worst I have ever ecounterd. You need to get out more. I have decided that maybe one of you will read this realize that he or she is washed up and will leave this online circus and enter the real world of words a writing. Are you saying circuses aren't real? Have any of you taken a step back and rad what is writtinen about on this site We all do, most every day. nothing can be talked about without someone making a stupid remark because that cant handle not being the smartist guy on the page is is halirous I can pretty much gauruntee that none of us make stupid remarks for that reason and i can assure you that I wil not waste anymore time trying to get any good info from this washed up library of fools "Waste not, want not" ut instead will stop by and look when ever I need a laugh That's mostly why I come here!

Good luck on your quest for your personal *grail.

peace


#119697 - 01/17/04 07:38 PM Re: Since it has been "said"...  
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americans speak english ... you are obviously an arogant amwerican fool go bomb someone.... how did such a great people get so stupid .. I feel sad...

Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119698 - 01/17/04 07:40 PM Re: Since it has been "said"...  
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lautreamont Offline
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Prague
I will leave you site alone ... gladly

Le Comte De Lautreamont


Le Comte De Lautreamont
#119699 - 01/18/04 03:04 AM Re: Since it has been "said"...  
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,538
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel
tsuwm  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,538
this too shall pass
>I will leave you site alone ... gladly

one has to wonder, "starting when?!*"
-ron o.

*for the uninitiated, "?!" (the interrobang) indicates a rhetorical question; i.e., one that requires no answer.


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