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Der Quibblemeister says "guava", coming from West Indies, was a doubtful choice for delicacies served on an East Indiaman.
"I have omitted to mention it, by the by. Miss Mills had sailed, and Dora and I had gone aboard a great East Indiaman at Gravesend to see her; and we had had preserved ginger, and guava, and other delicacies of that sort for lunch; and we had left Miss Mills weeping on a camp-stool on the quarter-deck, with a large new diary under her arm, in which the original reflections awakened by the contemplation of Ocean were to be recorded under lock and key. "
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old hand
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Entirely besides the point. Well, not entirely.
I used to detest guavas. They're very popular in India, eaten in halves or quarters, with salt and red chilli powder rubbed on them. But I refused to partake, after my first experience.
Then, at the age of 13, I first exprienced the true horror of a camp - the National Cadet Corps camp in Pune. Two weeks of hell. (I will not describe the lavatorial arrangements for fear of offending the more delicate members here.) Food was first come first served - if we didn't get into the line early, there was not much left for the end. And what there was of it not so much inedible (after all, others ate it and lived), but unrecognisable as food.
The upshot of this was that I eked my meagre pocket-money in purchases of bananas from the vendors who hung around the fences encircling the camp. On one tragic occasion, though, there were no kelawallas around. I think the camp commandant had managed to run them off for the nonce. So I was reduced to handing out a precious charanna (4 annas - a 25 paise coin) for a cut guava.
In the state I was in, starving and homesick, it was heavenly. For the rest of that tortured fortnight I alternated banana and guava with no reservations. It helped me survive, whilst my tent-mates, in desperate straits for entertainment or stimulus, descended to trying out the seeds of the poison datura plant, in the hope of getting a high.
Once home, of course, guava lost its attraction, and I don't think I've eaten it ever again. Everyone says its a better source of Vitamin C than oranges, though. So there.
cheer
the sunshine warrior
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Shanks: I had not hoped for such a pleasant reward for my quibbling. Your mention of "kelawalla" sent me searching.
Somehow I have difficulty believing you could in your miniature concentration camp successfuly expiscate the kelawallas described below:
S - As geddi kelawalla, Pihatu kelawalla, Kelawalla, Howalla;
T - Soccer, Kelavai.
Size: Maximum to 200 cm.
Habitat, biology, and fisheries: Pelagic, oceanic but often comes close to land and relatively shallow water; occurs above and below thermocline. Large schools together with K pelamis, most abundant tuna next to K pelamis; peak catches in monsoon period (May to September); trollingline, driftline; floating longline, and driftnets. Of major importance to fisheries; juveniles caught in pole-and-line with live bait; flesh excellent.
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Carpal Tunnel
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re:The upshot of this was that I eked my meagre pocket-money in purchases of bananas from the vendors who hung around the fences encircling the camp. On one tragic occasion, though, there were no kelawallas around.
taken just from context, and from a 'vague' knowledge, of 'wallas' its clear to me, kelawallas are small, itinerent fruit and vegetable vendors..
Merchant and Ivory had the film (long ago!) 'Shakespear wallas', about itinerent actors (english ex-pats,) who went from town to town, putting on performances of shakespear, and we've in the past discussed tiffins, (and the walla's who vend tiffins of food a the RR stations, )
Walla has come to mean in my mind, a term for a guy (gal) who is a small, itinerent vendor..
we know what a grill man is, (and how he/she differs from a chef), we know who the local 'handyman' is, when we need a window repaired, or the grindstone man.. and in the man in these descriptions isn't alwasy a man... its a person.
but i think (and again, this is just from limited exposure to the word,) wallas are usually selling something, (shakespear, or tiffins, or fruits and vegetables...)so you wouldn't have a short order (cook) walla. (but you might have a 'hotdogman/hotdogwalla--only i think they would be selling samosas, or something similar.)
so maahey, and shanks, how close am i to the meaning of walla(s)-(is the S part of the word or plural?)
PS, from first post--Preserved ginger..mmm, i love it.. pickled and thin sliced (Japanese style) or candied, in chewy big chunks... (as i think they would have had it...)
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear of troy: I learned "punka wallah" from Kipling, meaning the flunky who lazily waved a big fan give air movement in the rajah's rooms.
I think that may be source for other uses of the word. I too thought at first the "kelawalla" was a fruit peddler, but could find no confirmation thereof. And I could find nothing for "kela" either.
A change of search words yielded:
' Bananas (kela) of one sort or another are also on sale all year round, '
Dear Shanks: is a walla also a wallah?
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old hand
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I thought I'd leave that word in, untranslated, to see how long it took. Good detective work, guys.
Yes, at the time, using the vernacualr (as we called Hindi), a kela walla was a seller of bananas.
Congratulations.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Shanks: the only 'walla' I could find was twins:
Walla Walla WA.(USA)
I also found some recipes for guava chutney.
Signals over! Have I got Wallahs for you, Shanks!
Wallah in the Oxford English Dictionary Patriot-wallahs wallah (1785) in Seton-Karr Sel. Calcutta Gaz. (1864) I. 93
A band of good Patriot-wallahs. ''
Punkah-wallah punkah (1857) A. Case Let. 6 Aug. in Day by Day at Lucknow (1858) v.133
Last night..a shell burst close to our door, just behind the punkah wallah. ''
Oont-wallah oont (1862) Mrs. J. B. Speid Our Last Yrs. in India ix. 214
The Oont-wallah or camel-man. ''
banghy wallahs wallah (1863) Trevelyan Compet. Wallah v. (1864) 113
My suite comprised sixteen bearers,..and four banghy wallahs. ''
Competition-wallah competitio (1863) All Year R. X. 203 (heading)
CompetitionWallahs. ''
Competition Wallahs wallah (1863) Trevelyan Compet. Wallah i. (1864) 9
Stories against the Competition Wallahs,..are told... For instance: Story showing the Pride of Wallahs.-A Wallah being invited to dinner by a Member of Council, went out before the whole company. ''
howdah-wallahs wallah (1863) Trevelyan Compet. Wallah vi. 176
Strange stories these old howdah-wallahs could tell us, if they had the gift of speech!''
howdah-wallahs pad (1864) Trevelyan Compet. Wallah (1866) 151
We found the pad elephants, forty-four in number; which, with the howdah-wallahs, gave us a line of four dozen. ''
topee-wallahs topi (1864) Trevelyan Compet. Wallah (1866) 44
The idea got about that they were to be forcibly turned into topee-wallahs, hat-fellows, a synonym for the hated name of Frank or Christian.''
Punkah-wallah punkah (1864) Trevelyan Compet. Wallah (1866) 118
What well-regulated female can make dress an object in a society of a dozen people..; or music, when her audience consists of a Punkah-wallah and a Portuguese Ayah? ''
Competition-wallah competitio (1864) Trevelyan (title),
Letters of a Competition-wallah. ''
Competition-wallah competitio (1864) Trevelyan (title 9 )
The stories against the competition-wallahs, which are told and fondly believed by the Haileybury men. ''
tappal-wallah tappal (1865) Daily Tel. 12 Dec. 7/2
The tappal-wallah does not turn up with the letters at the proper time.''
dandy-wallahs dandy (1870) C. F. Gordon Cumming in Gd. Words 135/1
As the darkness closed in, my dandy-wallahs stumbled, so that I had to give up the attempt to use the dandy, and struggle on on foot. ''
wallah wallah (1872) Aliph Cheem (Yeldham) Lays of Ind (1876) 142
Each unemployed wallah so surely applies To be kindly allowed in that Station to stay, Doing his nothing, and drawing his pay. ''
competition Wallah pig (1873) Punch 21 June 262/2
Government finds that in producing the competition Wallah, it has driven its pigs to a pretty market.''
Competition-wallah competitio (1878) Sat. Rev. 15 June 750 (Y.)
The Competition-Wallah, at home on leave or retirement, dins perpetually into our ears the greatness of India. ''
Punkah-wallahing punkah (1890) Sarah J. Duncan Social Depart. 259
He had never, in the whole course of his punkah-wallahing, been told to stop before.''
clothes wallah wallah (1894) Mrs. Dyan Man's Keeping (1899) 195
`The Inseparables'..came in to superintend his toilet, accompanied by a ready-made clothes wallah and a barber. ''
police-wallahs nut-cut (1901) Kipling Kim. iv. 107
`That is a nut-cut (rogue),' she said. `All police-constables are nut-cuts; but the police-wallahs are the worst.'''
Oont-wallah oont (1902) Chambers's Jrnl. July 431/1
To judge from the selection of pillage, some one conversant with the interior economy of the caravan was involved, and it was significant that a number of the oont-wallahs (camel-drivers) were missing. ''
wallah wallah (1911) Sir W. F. Butler Autob. iii. 45
M. sleeps. Enter the wallahs and servants.''
big-ship wallahs wallah (1917) Blackw. Mag. Sept. 299/1
Now, those fellows..those big-ship wallahs-they're only just beginning to take Us seriously.''
Base-wallah base (1919) W. Deeping Second Youth xxix. 251
This Base-wallah of a doctor. ''
dak-wallah dak (1923) Blackw. Mag. Nov. 678/2
My old dak-wallah..had scented the battle from afar. ''
lathi-wallahs lathi (1924) R. Graves Mock Beggar Hall 64
Then the new power, foreseeing grave events Calls out the lathi-wallahs to line the streets.''
Ground wallah ground (1925) Fraser &. Gibbons Soldier &. Sailor Words 112
*Ground wallah, an Air Force term for a member of the R.A.F. whose duties were concerned with administrative, or office and aerodrome technical work.''
Mungy wallah munga (1925) Fraser &. Gibbons Soldier &. Sailor Words 161
Mungy wallah, a man employed in the Cook House. ''
sampan-wallah sampan (1932) Times Lit. Suppl. 29 Sept. 693/3
In time he became a sampan-wallah. ''
knife-wallahs knife (1932) Kipling Limits &. Renewals 350
And leave you knife-wallahs to kill our patients? ''
rickshaw-wallah rickshaw (1933) M. Lowry Ultramarine iii. 144
The rickshaw-wallah ran away with us, his sandals padding. ''
sampan-wallah sampan (1934) G. Orwell Burmese Days vii. 123
The successful sampan-wallah turned and discharged at his rival a mouthful of spittle.''
pani-wallah pani-walla (1934) G. Orwell Burmese Days xxv. 368
Ba Pe is pani-wallah in the same house at sixteen rupees a month. ''
pani-wallah pani-walla (1936) W. H. S. Smith Let. 2 Aug. in Young Man's Country (1977) ii. 20
church wallahs wallah (1940) E. Pound Cantos lx. 90
The European church wallahs wonder if this can be reconciled. ''
tonga wallah tonga (1942) M. R. Anand Sword &. Sickle i. 27
A tonga wallah called rudely. ''
gen wallah clueless (1943) C. H. Ward-Jackson Piece of Cake 22 `
I'm clueless'-I don'tknow; or, `He's a clueless type'-the opposite of a gen wallah.''
janker-wallahs jankers (1946) Penguin New Writing XXVII. 72,
I stepped into the hall of B.H.Q. over two janker-wallahs. ''
staff-wallah staff (1951) R. Campbell Light on Dark Horse xi. 145
A family connection who was only a *staff-wallah, and jealous of my being a soldier.''
Jadoo-wallah rope (1953) L. H. Branson Lifetime of Deception xxxviii. 206
The Indian `Jadoo-wallah' is a much over-rated performer, particularly as the world-famous Indian rope trick has never been performed. This is a statement of fact.''
night-and-day wallahs wallah (1955) Times 15 June 3/5
Thousands of the lorries were being worked for 12, 14, 16, and 18 hours a night, with tragic results. The term used on the roads to describe these drivers was `night-and-day wallahs'. ''
Box Wallahs box (1956) W. Slim Defeat into Victory 133
It was the `Box Wallahs', the commercial community, who in those hot, anxious months..turned Eas tern India into a base and workshop..for Burma.''
pani-wallah pani-walla (1957) D. G. O. Baillie Sea Affair 244
Pani-wallahs..are not really watermen at all, but oilmen, or greasers. ''
expense-account-wallahs expense (1959) R. Postgate Good Food Guide 1959-1960 387
The eaters were given precisely the same attentive service as the expe nse-account-wallahs. ''
Base-wallah base (1962) P. Purser Peregrination 22 xv. 69
Some of the chaps are going to cross an ice-cap... Not me..Strictly a base-wallah.''
wallah wallah (1965) A. Nicol Truly Married Woman 32
There's no end to what you wallahs in the administration would do to show your damned official b roadmindedness. ''
staff-wallah staff (1969) V. de S. Pinto City that Shone viii. 161
She's chock full of bleeding staff-wallahs. ''
trick-cyclist wallah trick (1971) P. Scott Towers of Silence v. iii. 345
That's why the trick-cyclist wallah insists on coming. ''
C.I.D. wallahs high (1973) J. Wainwright Pride of Pigs 18
High-rankers and C.I.D wallahs bobbing in and out.''
wallah wallah (1974) Courier-Mail (Brisbane) 7 June 7/3
Some wallahs in Canberra are sitting in air-conditioned offices telling us what has been flo oded and what hasn't.''
pan-wallah pan (1975) O. Sela Bengali Inheritance xix. 166
That bloody pan-wallah..lied to you.''
tonga wallah tonga (1978) M. M. Kaye Far Pavilions ii. x. 155
Tell the tonga-wallah to wait.''
music wallah wallah (1982) B. Trapido Brother of more Famous Jack xxxvi. 124,
I thought briefly of Roger who, being a music wallah, had always made a thing of St. Cecilia's Day.''
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The Indonesian jambu is related to the guava, and is often called guava in English. Guava is jambu batu (stone jambu) in Indonesian.
Bingley
Bingley
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I noticed the oont-wallah in Dr. Bill's list. Unta is the Indonesian for camel. Burung unta (camel bird) is the Indonesian for ostrich.
Bingley
Bingley
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old hand
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Bingley
Good point. I suspect they are cognates (is that the right term?), but may not be through shared PIE roots. My suspicion is that the Southern Indian imperialistic forays over South East Asia, between 1500 and about 800 years ago (my history is very fuzzy about dates), led not only to Borobudur and the shadow puppet theatre with stories from the Ramayana, but also to some words from the languages used in India at the time - Sanskrit, Pali etc.
What do you think?
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