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#11365 - 11/28/00 11:12 AM redundant pairings
tsuwm Offline
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Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10538
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I came across the phrase "vim and vigor" the other day and, struck by its repetitive nature, was reminded of when "kit and caboodle" came up here a while back. have we covered (nearly) equivalent pairings?

#11366 - 11/28/00 11:38 AM Re: redundant pairings
Father Steve Offline
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Registered: 09/06/00
Posts: 2788
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
A professor with whom I studied long, long ago told me that, when there appears to be a redundancy in such a pairing, it is often because one Anglo-Saxon (Germanic) word has been coupled with one Norman (Latin) word. He pointed to a dozen examples of this in the 1549 and 1552 Books of Common Prayer, although it was so long ago, I don't recall the examples.

#11367 - 11/28/00 02:09 PM Re: redundant pairings
Jackie Online   content

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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11613
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
This is not exactly the same, but...flesh and blood.
Hale and hearty. Part and parcel? Hack and slash.
Far and wide (maybe).

#11368 - 11/28/00 03:12 PM Re: redundant pairings
Marty Offline

Registered: 09/20/00
Posts: 347
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Prim and proper.
Neat and tidy.

It occurs to me, though, that there may be a sub-class of these expressions where the words are (almost) always coupled, such as "spick and span". Then again, if they can't be used separately, perhaps they don't qualify as redundant pairings??

#11369 - 11/28/00 03:13 PM Re: redundant pairings
of troy Offline
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Registered: 10/17/00
Posts: 5400
Loc: rego park
kith and kin?

and in the negitive, neither fair nor foul? (so it what?)

my other obsession

#11370 - 11/28/00 03:19 PM Re: redundant pairings
Max Quordlepleen Offline
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Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
Ship-shape and Bristol fashion?

#11371 - 11/28/00 04:11 PM Re: redundant pairings
tsuwm Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 10538
Loc: this too shall pass
>Ship-shape and Bristol fashion?
now there's one that's not often heard in the Minnesota woods.

#11372 - 11/28/00 09:19 PM Re: redundant pairings
AnnaStrophic Offline
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Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 6511
Loc: lower upstate New York
rack and ruin.

(Bristol fashion?? Background, please)

#11373 - 11/29/00 02:32 AM Re: redundant pairings
drum Offline

Registered: 11/28/00
Posts: 11
Loc: Central BC, Canada
How 'bout rip and tear?

#11374 - 11/29/00 02:52 AM Re: redundant pairings
Max Quordlepleen Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 3409
In reply to:

(Bristol fashion? Background please)

The following sounds plausible:
"Bristol: Ship-shape and Bristol fashion means that everything is neat and tidy. This saying comes from two aspects of the old Bristol docks in the days before the Floating Harbour was established in the 1830s. Bristol had, and still has, one of the largest differences of water level between ebb and flood in the World, something like 10 metres. At low tide ships in the harbour, if not really properly constructed and laden, would either break their backs or their cargoes would shift. Because of this, Bristol ships were always first class in these respects, hence the saying. The Floating Harbour was constructed by Brunel in order to overcome the tide problem. "
source: http://www.briggs13.fsnet.co.uk/book/b.htm

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