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#111285 09/01/03 04:17 PM
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None of Father Steve's made it into that edition, but I'll check those out on onelook.com tonight.

Unthinkable!

Take, for example, the Roosevelt elk (first on my list, none of which "made it" past the AHD test). The critter is recognized zoologically as Cervus elaphus roosevelti. They inhabit the high forests and mountains of the West and are often seen at timberline in the Olympic National Park. They are to be distinguished from the Rocky Mountain Elk, which is found to the other side of the Cascade Divide. The Native Americans hereabouts called them "wapiti" which is a reference to the white on their bottoms.

See generally "Field Guide to North American Mammals", National Audubon Society, Chanticleer Press, Inc. New York, New York (1996-1997)

And toss out any cheap horribly-abridged dictionary which fails to note the exitstence of this noble critter.



#111286 09/01/03 04:26 PM
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Likewise the Olympic marmot, which also did not make the AHD cut.

While all sorts of marmots are found in all sorts of places, the Olympic marmot (Marmota olympus) is found only in and around the Olympic National Park in Washington State. Closely related to the hoary marmot, they are distinguished zoologically.

See generally Richard Van Gelder. Mammals of the National Parks. Johns Hopkins University Press, Baltimore, 1982; William Burt. A Field Guide to the Mammals. Houghton Mifflin Company, Boston, 1976.




#111287 09/01/03 08:10 PM
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Steller blue-jay.

and not to be kiboshian®, but aren't most animals' names capitalized as such?





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#111288 09/01/03 10:35 PM
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Most animal names are not capitalized--and then there are the thousands upon thousands of exceptions.

For instance, take a look at a list of seafood names--animals that commonly appear in grocery stores:

1. cod
2. flounder
3. grouper
4. haddock
5. halibut
6. octopus
7. mackerel
8. mahimahi
9. ocean perch
10. pickerel
11. pike
12. porgy
13. sockeye red salmon
14. salmon
15. sardine
16. tilefish
17. weakfish
18. white perch
19. whitefish
20. sea trout
21. shad
22. sturgeon
23. abalone
24. albacore
25. bluefish
26. carp
27. catfish
28. herring
29. rainbow trout
30. red snapper
31. sailfish
32. shark
33. silver perch
34. smelt
35. snapper
36. squid
37. swordfish
38. yellow perch


None of those are capitalized--along with thousands upon thousands of other animal names that are not capitalized.

But throw in an animal that has been named by some explorer or biologist, such as Thompson's gazelle. Well, things change, of course. Animal names associated with geographical places (proper names only need apply) or people who named a new species take capitalization of the first, but not the second part as in Thompson's gazelle or the Bengal tiger, which I'm still reeling over not having been included in my edition of AHD.

Then there's genus and species, of course: genus capitalized, but species lower case.

So you have to be pretty careful with some animal names, especially those tricky ones like arctic fox and northern pike. The only way to really know is to check the dictionaries, and even dictionaries are contrary at times. This morning I found MW listing one entry one way and AHD listing the same entry another. I should have made a note of it because I've forgotten the entry.

Dalmatian was interesting. I had no idea that the Dalmatian was named after Dalmatia--because I'd never heard of Dalmatia, I'm ashamed to admit. However, even more interesting, in AHD it was noted that the Dalmatian could be spelled both capitalized and lower case. It's all very interesting, I think.

I will certainly tell my kids about Faldage's indignation over the Roosevelt elk not having been included in that edition of the AHD. I haven't checked the most recent edition to see whether any of these have been added.

Won't it be exciting if my kids find all of this very interesting as we begin our study this year with the good old nouns--but perhaps considered as not being quite as humdrum as one might think.

Oh, and one of our biology teachers today told me that 'sea bass' is a name that used for any fish in the restaurant business that would have an otherwise disagreeable name--sheep's head or something like that he mentioned would be served as sea bass. He mentioned a couple of others that are served as sea bass that are actually disagreeable-sounding fish names. Mahimahi, he said, is actually the fish dolphin--but so much hoopla was made over serving the mammal at restaurants (people assumed incorrectly) that the restauranteurs changed the fish dolphin's name to mahimahi. I haven't confirmed anything he told me, so I don't know how true this is. I think we might have had some discussion on AWAD a while back about the fish dolphin, however--didn't we?


#111289 09/01/03 10:50 PM
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But throw in an animal that has been named by some explorer or biologist,

sorry, I was having a spell of ronycism.

there does seem to be very little rhyme or reason, just generalizations. an interesting study, WW!

but I think it was Father Steve, not Faldage...



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#111290 09/01/03 10:51 PM
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In reply to:

a name that used for any fish in the restaurant business that would have an otherwise disagreeable name--


Dub-Dub, are you saying that the restaurants changed these fish names on porpoise?
Somebody had to say it since TEd's too busy


#111291 09/01/03 11:03 PM
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consuelo: Haaaaaaaaaaa!

et': I stand corrected. It was Father Steve. I'll tell my kids about Father Steve. I'm sure I'll mention Faldage, too, at some point this year, probably earlier than later.


#111292 09/01/03 11:12 PM
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Jackie...

The interesting problem here is whether Morgan horse is an adjective plus noun function or a compound noun function. If Morgan horse doesn't appear to be identified in any dictionary as a noun, then you'd use it as an adjective plus a noun--and it would be diagrammed differently from American saddle horse (all on one line functioning as a noun).

I'll check onelook right now to see whether any dictionary identifies 'Morgan horse' as a noun--and will return if there is one that so lists it.

Edit: Tough call. Three more encyclopedia-like references do list 'Morgan horse' on onelook--and that's out of over 800 references, including MW and AHD--but none of the three name 'Morgan horse' as a noun, as is true of other breeds of horses we've discussed above. Even though it's not recognized by the standard dictionaries as a compound word that functions as a noun--doesn't it follow suit from other horse breeds that function as nouns? I figure if Shetland pony, American saddle horse, Arabian horse all function as nouns, then Morgan horse should, too, whether it appears as such in a dictionary. Otherwise, it would just be too exceptional of an exception.

#111293 09/01/03 11:45 PM
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It was Father Steve

I was in a different thread. Black spots on a black body.


#111294 09/01/03 11:52 PM
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Faldage's jaguar



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