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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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An interesting word from a uni rag-week magazine (I read anything!):
Palliasse - A thin mattress filled with straw or sawdust, f. F paillasse, f. It. pagliaccio, f. Rom. paleaceum, f .L palea, straw, chaff.
The word was described by AHD and MW as a variant of paillasse, although I have never seen it spelt that way in English; maybe that is a USn spelling?
The most interesting thing though is that it seems to be only the OED that brings in the Italian word pagliaccio, which generally is defined as meaning ‘clown’, or ‘buffoon’ (hence the famous opera). I can’t see any connection although the language link between country people and clowns is an established one.
There is the last word in the definition above, 'chaff', n. [AC. ceaf; akin to D. kaf, G. kaff.] Light jesting talk; banter; raillery. But it's stretching it a bit to link that with 'clown'!
Is pagliaccio an Oxford error, or is there a positive connection do you think?
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old hand
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old hand
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I think paglia is straw which would make pagliaccio something related to or made of straw. If you then think of a scarecrow (traditionally depicted as being made of straw) it is easy to come up with a new meaning involving a clown. However, the word has straw origins, which could be confirmed by someone having a proper Italian dictionary (not just a translating one).
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I learned the word in French. Is it likely that while the French double "l" has a "y" sound, that English writers inserted the "i" after the "ll" to get correct pronunciation?
Why am I remembering opera, a sad sack called Palliace or something like that?
Edit: I found it.
I Pagliacci, variously translated as Traveling Players or Clowns, is a popular and often performed short opera in the verismo style.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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That's him, mav. I never did find out what all the agony was about.
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Carpal Tunnel
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(hence the famous opera)It's OK, dixbie. Some people just need it spelled out. Here, have some chopped liver. 
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Carpal Tunnel
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spelled out
Some of us are proud to be rustic, so don't be too cavaliera!
My daughter went to her first production at Glyndebourne last week, sweet 16 & posh frock n'all ~ she couldn't believe the elaborations of silver service and crystal goblets of some of the less rustic fellow-picnicers! But definitely no chopped liver in sight.
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Carpal Tunnel
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What's Glyndebourne, please?
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Glyndebourne: http://www.glyndebourne.com/It is quite close to where I live - 15 miles or so - but to my shame I have never been.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Ah--an opera house! Thanks, dxb.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Glyndebourne is on our list of "things that Zildians in England should do before they leave". It's also on the "not this year" sublist as well as the "and jeez does it cost an arm and a leg!" sublist. This sublist is rather long ...
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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For the hell of it I found a site about the plot of the opera. I shouldn't have bothered.
http://www.jdlh.palo-alto.ca.us/perform/roles/pagliacci96.html
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veteran
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veteran
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Well, you're right about that, Bill. No one should take the plot of an opera seriously. If you think I Pagliacci has a strange plot, you should look into Il Trovatore. That one was spoofed by Gilbert & Sullivan twice -- once in Ruddigore and once in HMS Pinafore.
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Carpal Tunnel
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"When Music was married to Immortal Verse, she committed a horrible mésalliance." Wish I could remember name of essayist whose opinion that was.
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Carpal Tunnel
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"When Music was married to Immortal Verse, she committed a horrible mésalliance."
Which one is the she... Music or Immortal Verse? [running away-e]
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Carpal Tunnel
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which one was the she
From the syntax sounds like neither.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Maybe they both were from Lesbos.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I allus thought that was immoral verse... 
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Carpal Tunnel
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formerly known as etaoin...
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Let me regress here a bit to the top of the thread:
"Palliasse - A thin mattress filled with straw or sawdust, f. F paillasse, f. It. pagliaccio, f. Rom. paleaceum, f .L palea, straw, chaff."
Thin mattress...straw...hmmmm. In the South, it was not uncommon for children to sleep on pallets. There must be a connection here to palliasse. Sometimes in families on tight budgets, only the parents could afford a bed, and the children would sleep on pallets. I saw a model of Jesse Owens' childhood cabin: eleven children in his family all slept in one small room on pallets though his parents had a bed in a separate room.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear WW: I am regressing towards my second childhood.
I suggest that you are reverting to the first post.
And my dictionary doe indicate that "palliasse" and "pallet"
can indeed be regarded as arising from a French word for straw.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Actually, wwh, I misused 'regress' on purpose: people in these threads occasionally will say that they are 'digressing'--and this particular thread was taking on several forms. The thread had digressed, so I wrote that I was 'regressing'--and meant the term in a tongue-in-cheek way. But you are absolutely correct, of course. I wasn't really regressing at all in the way the verb should had been used--and accurately used. I was just having a bit of fun with the sound of it. I don't suppose AWAD, of all places, is a place where I should intentionally misuse a word and not expect to be corrected. I won't pull that kind of action again and will simply and correctly revert when amused by threads' digressions.
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Carpal Tunnel
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...is a place where I should intentionally misuse a word and not expect to be corrected.Until now I didn't think I was special...  where's tsuwm when you Needham - e----------- WW - I certainly hope they were the style of pallets that have virtually no space between the planks or there was a family chiropracter available.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear WW: cross my heart, and hope to die, I wasn't correcting you. I haven't regressed that far.
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