|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
so my question is this:
was there ever a time when English, or even it's predecessors, used intonation for meaning?
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Having taught at a school that had a large population of Cambodians, Vietnamese, Thai and Laotian students, I do understand in essence how highly inflected languages differ from English .
But what I don't understand is how the melodiousness of expressive English speakers wouldn't also be a right brain function. Sometimes, for instance, when a speaker drives a point home, it might not be so much the content alone of what he speaks, but also the melodiousness itself--the rise and fall of the voice on certain words, stress, enunciation of particular consonants, rhythmic interspacing, and so on--part and parcel of the actor's craft. How are these musical aids to language well-spoken--ones that require the rise and fall of phrases at least and the delivery of the individual words, even down to the beautifully or forcefully enuniciated consonant--still purely left brain functions?
I do understand how Asiatic inflection is different--I did try to imitate my Vietnamese students' language for their amusement. My incorrect inflection always amused them as they told me what I'd actually said--but isn't there a similarity here at least in our own masterful phrasing, delivery and enunciation?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
was there ever a time when English, or even it's predecessors, used intonation for meaning?
you mean likd a rising inflextion or tone when we are asking a question?
(rant)
many women, acquire the habit in their teen years of always using a rising intonation, and everything they say sounds tentitive.. or they will tack on an isn't it? to almost every sentence..
It's a nice day, isn't it?
I know how to get there, I think?
every statement is tentive... and then they complain no one takes them seriously.. (of course if they break the habit, they tend to get called agressive, or get told they speak like a man
(/rant)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210 |
well, ww and helen, I had thought of that, but my understanding of intonation in speech is that it is actual pitch, not just inflection. ww, it sounds like you are much more familiar with this than I, but I have always wondered whether the pitches used by different people saying the same word matched? and how far, word to word, frequency-wise, do those pitches differ? (those have to be two of the most(worst) poorly worded sentences ever...)
anyway, let me finish this second cup of coffee...(hi Fald!)
formerly known as etaoin...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296 |
Et'
You bring up an interesting point. The pitches probably couldn't match between adults since men's voices would be lower. But, oh, suppose they matched on the octaves! Now that would be something to consider! But I doubt it.
All I know--and it is very little--is when I tried to duplicate the inflected tones of individual words in Vietnamese, I had my students in stitches. The inflection is by far more restricted that just an inflection to show a question with our voices, although it would be related in a very general sense, of troy. The inflected tones were so small in terms of audible range, that I could not hear them correctly and then reproduce them correctly to my students often. Sometimes--strictly by chance and a fairly good western ear--I would nail the sucker. And my students would applaud. But I learned that it would be a cold day in hell before I'd try in earnest to learn Vietnamese. I had trouble enough with trying to speak French to a French man once--I thoroughly annoyed him.
If we had a tape available--a sound file--so that the AWADers could hear these Vietnamese inflections and how very slight differences in inflection change word meaning, that would be helpful, particularly for a general sound differently inflected that would mean about four or five different words.
My question is: Do highly trained speakers with very musical voices use the right brain at all? I would guess they must. And if they do, then the rest of us might a little, if not to the degree of highly inflected languages, such as Mandarin, from what the opening post suggests.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,757 |
Good post, Mr B - got us using a bit more of ours brains! Thanks for bringing the article to attention.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692 |
People have to use more of their brain to understand Mandarin Chinese than they do English.
I wonder if there are spin-offs, side effects, from this. Do Mandarin speakers have higher IQs for example? Does speaking Mandarin in old age keep their brains more active, helping to stave off Alzheimer’s or memory loss? Could make for some interesting research.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027
old hand
|
|
old hand
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,027 |
Do Mandarin speakers have higher IQs for example? I would hesitate to jump to such conclusions. The fact that a language uses more brain, i.e. more of our limited  resources, for what are after all similar tasks among all Earth-dwellers, could mean that the language is less efficient, in purely utilitaristic terms. This does not necessarily mean that it is more difficult. Walking on four legs is probably easier than on two.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
i wonder how a stroke effects speakers of mandrin, and other tonal languages.
when stroke victims have damage to broca's area, their speech is effected, but many times they can still sing, and therapy to recover speach uses this intact ability to keep the tongue and other muscles moving.. they sometimes find they can summon up bits of songs, melodies and words, and begin a rudimentary system of communication.
but since tonal languages have a more intrigrated use of the right and left halves of the brain, i wonder if they have more cross connections with singing and speach than speakers of non tonal languages?
what say any of the resident doctors/neurologist? or is the an area of brain patterns that has yet to be explored?
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,373
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
155
guests, and
1
robot. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
