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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Gee, Father Steve: at first I thought you were going to haul tsuwm into court for fishing out of season.
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 67
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 67 |
"I have the impression that English is the, er, Linga Franca of the educated classes in India. Surely the kid learned English over there before coming here." True (most of the times.) An interesting phenomenon occurs due to India having a large number of disparate regional languages. A South Indian, for example, may be able to communicate with a North Indian more comfortably (or at times, only) in English... 'Coz the only other language they know well is their respective regional language, which may or may not be Hindi. I experienced this first-hand, and the strangeness and humor of the situation was brought home only when an American noticed it.  Edit: Having said that, an Indian still has to learn English, as it is not his/her 'mother-tongue'. Many are not as comfortable with spoken English as they are with reading or writing it; and their use of the language, while being correct on most occasions, might be considered awkward by native speakers of English (another first-hand experience!)
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 67
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 67 |
"this was his final year to do it" (Fallible Fiend's post) led me to believe that this contest is open only to children below a specific age. Then how come this child was given the title of "the title of America’s best speller" (Father Steve's first post) ? There might be other people who can spell better but are not eligible for the contest, if I understood the two statements correctly...
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
As with, I suspect, many others on this board, spelling has never a problem for me, although a word such as pococurante might well, even now (or especially now) trip me up. I used to relish spelling tests because I could excel at them with next to no effort. I've tried to bear that in mind when others are having difficulty with my lack of understanding of something that they are good at. Which is damned near everything except spelling.
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
Contest Rules of the 76th Annual
Scripps Howard National Spelling Bee in Washington, D.C.
1. Students participating in the Scripps Howard National Spelling Bee in Washington, D.C., must qualify under nine requirements:
(1) they must not have passed beyond the eighth grade on or before February 1, 2003;
(2) they must not have reached their 16th birthday on or before the date of the national finals, May 28, 2003;
(3) they, their parents, educators, relatives, or acquaintances must not have obtained a copy of the 2003 School Pronouncer Guide for use in studying;
(4) they must not have spelled in their final local spelling bee any words that appear in the 2003 School Pronouncer Guide;
(5) they must not have won their final local spelling bee before February 1, 2003;
(6) they must not have been disqualified at any level of any sponsor's spelling bee program between June 2002 and April 2003;
(7) they must not have eschewed normal school activity in favor of preparation for spelling bees;
(8) they must not have been declared the champion of any previous Scripps Howard National Spelling Bee in Washington, D.C.; and
(9) they must be the individual champion (last one standing) of a sponsor's final spelling bee.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
Aren't rules 3 and 4 just a tad contradictory?
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
Rules 3 and 4 are no more contradictory than the rules for running for judge in Washington State. The Ethical Canons require that the judicial candidate not know who contributes to his/her campaign. The Public Disclosure Commission rules require that the candidate, and no one else, certify under penalty of perjury that the reports of who contributed to his/her campaign are accurate and complete. Now, just how in hell is anybody supposed to abide by both rules?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,526
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,526 |
an Indian still has to learn English
I make the mistake sometimes of implying that my personal experience and my personal acquaintances are representative of the general case. I had a curious coterie of close friends and acquaintances while I was a student at university. My wedding pictures tell the tail and I still remember my grandpa pulling me aside before the ceremony and asking suspiciously, "Son ... do you have any *American* friends?" (He called his grandsons "son" and his granddaughters "daughter" ... no idea why ... maybe it's a common thing for peole of his generation.)
Sometimes (in my experience) the English spoken by Indians does sound awkward, maybe overly complicated. I guess I had chalked it up to colloquial habits of speech in India. I idolized them because when I got past the accents I discovered they tended to be extremely erudite. Even the few I disliked tended to have a sense of humor I relished. Maybe living in Kentucky my standards were low and I'd think anybody who could speak in complete sentences was a genius. We did have (we do have) a crappy school system, but there's a lot of smart people there. Hard to say.
Also, accent is usually a far more difficult thing to understand (at least at first) than the ornate grammar or sometimes esoteric vocabulary. This part isn't just my experience, though. I've spoken to many native English speakers who have said the same thing about trying to understand Indian speakers of English.
OTOH, of my 3 closest Indian friends at the time, two learned English at home (one attended school in England and he could do a great texan ... could have me in tears). So, one learned a lot at home, one at least a little. One may or may not have learned at home. I don't think I ever talked to him about it. Probably not, now that I think about it, but I'm not sure. Kinda odd. He had a BA in English (or literature or something like that) from some Indian University. G (from Kerala) spoke English and Malayallam; E (from Bombay, Goa) English and Hindi; D (from bengal, Calcutta i think) English, Hindi, and Bengali.
ah, well ... kids need something.
k
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
I had a young friend who came to this country from BudaPest to work as an international counselor at a church summer camp. His name was Peter. He spoke three languages fluently; English was not one of them and part of his design for coming here for a summer was to improve his English skills. His English was so thickly accented as to make it difficult for us native speakers to understand. Most of the English he had learned was from BBC radio broadcasts. On occasion, he would entertain us all by perfectly imitating the perfectly-Engish accent and delivery of the broadcasters: "This is the BBC Overseas Service."
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
Rules 3 and 4 are no more contradictory than the rules for running for judge in Washington State. The Ethical Canons require that the judicial candidate not know who contributes to his/her campaign. The Public Disclosure Commission rules require that the candidate, and no one else, certify under penalty of perjury that the reports of who contributed to his/her campaign are accurate and complete. Now, just how in hell is anybody supposed to abide by both rules?
Hmmm. Yes, I can see the problem. So what do you actually do to avoid/evade the contradiction, Padre?
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