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Carpal Tunnel
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According to a 21 May 03 article in the New Zealand Herald, the speaker of the New Zealand Parliament corrected an MP -- Katherine Rich -- for using the expression "sweet bugger all" on the floor of the house. Speaker Jonathan Hunt advised Ms. Rich to use another expression. Hunt defended his chastisement by saying that there was no need to use the word "bugger" in Parliament out of "respect for the English language."
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Carpal Tunnel
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I await with intetest to hear the reaction of our members
from Zild.
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old hand
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old hand
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Good luck to puir wee Jonathan. Even his very substantial mass will, I fear, be insufficient to quash the persistent little bugger. Bugger is not only the first word I ever said, it is absolutely entrenched in Kiwi kulcha, all the more so thanks to Toyota. I am not given to vulgar speech, but even to me, bugger is OK - I recently told a member here that I know bugger all about bugger all. I guess that's why I'm not an MP.
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Carpal Tunnel
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One Kiwi for buggery. With or without "French letter"?
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Carpal Tunnel
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I've heard bugger all on many occasions but never sweet bugger all. Sweet FA, yes. Sweet Fanny Adams, yes. Sweet F all, yes. But never sweet bugger all.
Bingley
Bingley
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Carpal Tunnel
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I don't think we've every done a thread on Sweet Fanny Adams but I believe it derives from a real English murder case in which a young girl was killed. Maybe, if we wish to pursue the source of this phrase, it is better done in a separate thread.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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"Sweet bugger all" is a gen-yew-wine Zild expression, not often heard even across the ditch. The fact that Katherine Rich used it surprises me not at all. The fact that Fat Jack Hunt tried to suppress it surprises me not at all. The fact that he won't succeed (and here I accede wholeheartedly to sjm's opinion) will surprise me not at all. If he did succeed I would be very surprised.
The word "bugger" in Zildish English has absolutely none of the connotations that wwh seems so keen to pursue. Like f*ck, it can be used as an endearment or a curse, a mild epithet or the most vicious abuse. As sjm also mentioned, there is a TV ad for Toyota utility vehicles (which may or may not still be running) in which the only two words uttered throughout the entire 30 seconds of its length are "bugger" and "me".
The rest of the world may not like it, but I'll be buggered if I change the way I speak for the entire pack of intolerant buggers!
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Carpal Tunnel
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The Zild theory seems to be that if you say "feces" oftenen enough it becomes icecream.
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Carpal Tunnel
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oh, come on Dr Bill, the same sort of discussion has been going on here in US, where any number of states have laws against 'sodomy'- and the best defination of sodomy given in any of the laws, is "unnatural acts" (which means? what cutting down trees?)
there is a strong puritan streak in US, and there are some really unsafe sexual practices.. but to make them illegal between consenting adults in the privacy of their own homes is pretty intrusive.
you have been known to make comments on oral sex, (i still remember the first time i heard the words cunnilingus and felatio!) well, in the vague anti sodomy laws, these acts too, are outlawed- even between husband and wife!
for a time in the late sixties, it was common enough for kids to were sweatshirts with big 69's on the front.. and its common enough to know what that meant.. and the world didn't fall apart!
'bloody hell' isn't much of curse here in US, but its nasty enough language in UK (or was)-- if bugger is has become an acceptable word, then let it be.
words only have the power we invest in them! if the Kiwi's don't have any problem with it.. so be it!
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Carpal Tunnel
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words only have the power we invest in them! Helen--bless you. You have a genuinely empathetic heart. We do all have our own boundaries, don't we? What offends some, others have no problem with. There are a couple of words that I simply will not say, although they are considered very mild today, because they were "bad" words when I was growing up. And yet, I do say some that are bad by today's standards--though of my board friends, only my sweet Maverick has heard the worst!
Honest ignorance can come into play here, too. I have recently learned that a certain nationality can be offended by certain nicknames; I had heard the names, yet it hadn't occurred to me that there might be negative associations with them, because I have had very little contact with this nationality. That alleged Maori word, for example--I had a "gut feeling" that it wasn't a real word, but certainly took no offense at it; whereas, a Maori, or anyone who has some knowledge of and feeling for them, might well have taken offense.
I don't think we can take offense at a word we have never heard before.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Come on yourself, of troy. The issue was about language suitable for use in Parliament. The excuse given was "everybody does it". I have heard kids justify shoplifting "because all the kids do it."
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Geez, give over, Bill. IT DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE NEWS IN ZILD. That should tell you something!
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Carpal Tunnel
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In other words Pfranz, NZ Parliament is so bush league
anything goes. I deplore oonly vulgar language in legislative session, which this apparently was. What are the standards in UK?
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Same as in the US. Ignorance and form are more important than intelligence and public interest ...
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old hand
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Shift happens, get over it. Now bugger off.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Yeah, what he said, bugger it all! You try to explain, and whaddya get? Sweet bugger all. Sheesh.
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Carpal Tunnel
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OK, having had a bit of fun,I'll assure you I was not really in earnest. It does show the hazard of using obscenities so constantly the meaning gets lost.
The best reason for having a hig;h standard of taste in a parliament is to avoid violence resulting from an MP appli;ng a fighting word to a colleague.
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Carpal Tunnel
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OP
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Does anyone remember a silly old TV sci-fi series called "Battlestar Galactica" on which the humans spoke their own outer-space slang? One of the words, never defined on the series, was felgercarb -- which meant something very bad, but the viewer never knew what. It entered, briefly, the English vocabularies of pre-adolescents, but then exited, when the series went off the air, I think.
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old hand
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old hand
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Does anyone remember a silly old TV sci-fi series called "Battlestar Galactica" on which the humans spoke their own outer-space slang? One of the words, never defined on the series, was felgercarb -- which meant something very bad, but the viewer never knew what.
Rather like the most vile expletive in the HHG universe - Belgium. (And yes, I will confees to remembering "Galactica")
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Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Father Steve: I don't remember Battlestar Galactica, nor did I ever hear the word felgercarb. I went into a Yahoo group site by that name, after warning about adult content, but could learn nothing of the content withou joining. I am not a joiner, which incidentally used to be a very nasty put-down.
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Pooh-Bah
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Or Red Dwarf's smeg and smeghead. Or as the android used to say smm heee (not being programmed to swear)
Does it say something profound that I like corny sci fi better than the quality stuff?
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old hand
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Red Dwarf IS quality SF - and don't you forget it!
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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My apologies. By Quality I meant that someone hired a technical advisor and thought deeply about what the universe and its inhabitants would be like in the future and came up with a life affirming philosophy. Me, I'm happy if I can see the strings on the spaceships. 
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Maybe "Smeghead" was part of reason Yahoo has age restrictions on participating in the "felgercarb" site.
Reminds me of incident in bacteriology class sixty five years ago. By PM on request.
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Carpal Tunnel
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"Unlike some science-fiction series, Red Dwarf does not take itself too seriously and does not try to be politically correct. This allows it to do stories in situations that Star Trek would never dare touch."
- Professor Stephen Hawking
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member
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This thread reminds me of conversations I used to have with my Australian ex-husband. I mentioned that a friend of mine aspired to be an MFA (master of fine arts) and he was simultaneously amused and alarmed at the implications. It was as a result of my acquaintance with him that I started seeing the MBA degree as signifying "master of bugger-all".
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Yes, and, asking as an antipodean, your point is, precisely? It's not only euphonious, it's more or less true. I've taught on two MBA programmes, and I am not impressed with the outcomes, although I am impressed with student workrates and the drive to achieve.
MFA - I have no opinion about the original degree, although I do take your potential point about the initials ...
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Carpal Tunnel
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Odd what's allowed in Parliaments and Congresses. On a trip to Bermuda (the late 70s)I was fortunate to meet Robert Lowe who was the Parlimentarion for the Bermuda Parliament. He also announced the Monarch if and when she (or he) ever visited the Parliament. Anyway, Bob (a lovely man with a wonderful voice)said members were diciplined for using "bad" language. However, he noted, that there were some terrible epithets used and justified by fact they appeared in the Bible and so were non-diciplinable. It reminds me of what I was told the first time I assayed "Dam!" : "You may use swear words and vulgatities when you have mastered the English language."
Well ...........still workin' on *that!
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