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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
According to a 21 May 03 article in the New Zealand Herald, the speaker of the New Zealand Parliament corrected an MP -- Katherine Rich -- for using the expression "sweet bugger all" on the floor of the house. Speaker Jonathan Hunt advised Ms. Rich to use another expression. Hunt defended his chastisement by saying that there was no need to use the word "bugger" in Parliament out of "respect for the English language."
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
I await with intetest to hear the reaction of our members
from Zild.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742 |
Good luck to puir wee Jonathan. Even his very substantial mass will, I fear, be insufficient to quash the persistent little bugger. Bugger is not only the first word I ever said, it is absolutely entrenched in Kiwi kulcha, all the more so thanks to Toyota. I am not given to vulgar speech, but even to me, bugger is OK - I recently told a member here that I know bugger all about bugger all. I guess that's why I'm not an MP.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
One Kiwi for buggery. With or without "French letter"?
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
I've heard bugger all on many occasions but never sweet bugger all. Sweet FA, yes. Sweet Fanny Adams, yes. Sweet F all, yes. But never sweet bugger all.
Bingley
Bingley
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,788 |
I don't think we've every done a thread on Sweet Fanny Adams but I believe it derives from a real English murder case in which a young girl was killed. Maybe, if we wish to pursue the source of this phrase, it is better done in a separate thread.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
"Sweet bugger all" is a gen-yew-wine Zild expression, not often heard even across the ditch. The fact that Katherine Rich used it surprises me not at all. The fact that Fat Jack Hunt tried to suppress it surprises me not at all. The fact that he won't succeed (and here I accede wholeheartedly to sjm's opinion) will surprise me not at all. If he did succeed I would be very surprised.
The word "bugger" in Zildish English has absolutely none of the connotations that wwh seems so keen to pursue. Like f*ck, it can be used as an endearment or a curse, a mild epithet or the most vicious abuse. As sjm also mentioned, there is a TV ad for Toyota utility vehicles (which may or may not still be running) in which the only two words uttered throughout the entire 30 seconds of its length are "bugger" and "me".
The rest of the world may not like it, but I'll be buggered if I change the way I speak for the entire pack of intolerant buggers!
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
The Zild theory seems to be that if you say "feces" oftenen enough it becomes icecream.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,400 |
oh, come on Dr Bill, the same sort of discussion has been going on here in US, where any number of states have laws against 'sodomy'- and the best defination of sodomy given in any of the laws, is "unnatural acts" (which means? what cutting down trees?)
there is a strong puritan streak in US, and there are some really unsafe sexual practices.. but to make them illegal between consenting adults in the privacy of their own homes is pretty intrusive.
you have been known to make comments on oral sex, (i still remember the first time i heard the words cunnilingus and felatio!) well, in the vague anti sodomy laws, these acts too, are outlawed- even between husband and wife!
for a time in the late sixties, it was common enough for kids to were sweatshirts with big 69's on the front.. and its common enough to know what that meant.. and the world didn't fall apart!
'bloody hell' isn't much of curse here in US, but its nasty enough language in UK (or was)-- if bugger is has become an acceptable word, then let it be.
words only have the power we invest in them! if the Kiwi's don't have any problem with it.. so be it!
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
words only have the power we invest in them! Helen--bless you. You have a genuinely empathetic heart. We do all have our own boundaries, don't we? What offends some, others have no problem with. There are a couple of words that I simply will not say, although they are considered very mild today, because they were "bad" words when I was growing up. And yet, I do say some that are bad by today's standards--though of my board friends, only my sweet Maverick has heard the worst!
Honest ignorance can come into play here, too. I have recently learned that a certain nationality can be offended by certain nicknames; I had heard the names, yet it hadn't occurred to me that there might be negative associations with them, because I have had very little contact with this nationality. That alleged Maori word, for example--I had a "gut feeling" that it wasn't a real word, but certainly took no offense at it; whereas, a Maori, or anyone who has some knowledge of and feeling for them, might well have taken offense.
I don't think we can take offense at a word we have never heard before.
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