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ww - Unless we all live within (or at least next to - within 'view') each others' cultures, we'll never all speak the same language... this shows how true natural polarization works... manifest most clearly in the difference between the sexes. The age of communication we live in may help 'bridge the gap', but my driving point was:
"Getting someone to hear you doesn't mean they're listening."
(ps - I *usually make this point with the words 'listen' and 'hear' in the opposite juxtaposition, but I started this time the 'other way around')
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John Denver was my favorite musician well past my teens. My brothers liked Queen and Frank Zappa, though, which I couldn't stand. When my next younger brother came to live with me, I got a chance to really listen to FZ all the way through and discovered I actually liked it - curse words and all. Much, much later, while channel surfing, I saw a clip of Freddie Mercury doing We are The Champions - I think it was from his last performance before he died. Electric. Now I'm a big fan of both (not that Queen is big into the cussin, but FZ certainly is).
I've long had the opinion that the vast majority of music is garbage. But it's not confined to any particular genre (is that the right word to use for music?). Another example: I was pretty convinced that rap was The Earthly Embodiment of Stupidity - but then I heard Baby Got Back and I tell ya - I really, really like that song. (It's still kinda stupid, but I do like it.)
Maybe you could have an assignment where they ask their parents for two songs that were THEIR favorites growing up and play the songs in class. Since most "music" of any particular style is crap, the students will have a much easier time finding something that's good if they're willing to try different things.
I had a coworker who sent to school at St. Olaf's. This is I think some catholic school where The Big Thing On Campus is their choir. It doesn't sound that interesting, but he loaned me some CDs. Skeptical is not the word. I was strongly antipathetic to wasting even two seconds on it, but I just popped it in one day and let it rip. Some of these can almost bring tears to your eyes. I listened to one of them all the way through several times (the CD, not just one song) before I realized these jokers weren't even using instruments. They made all that noise with just their natural equipment.
k
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Carpal Tunnel
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St. Olaf's has a supreme reputation, especially for choral achievement.
What was disturbing--and sad--to me in my student's comment was all the 'good' music had 'cuss words.' It was disturbing that for this one boy, in the entire, rich world of popular music with all its various form of garbs, that for him (at least for him) he could not look forward to a music celebration because he could take no good music to school. And I began to wonder why in this child's experience all of the pop artists he knew and admired used profanity? Think about it. Suppose someone here wanted to get permission from Anu--all of us--to put together a book for high school students, say about communication over the Internet--and then decided to scrap the project because all the good threads had profanity in them.
Maybe this student is drawn to popular music that has 'cuss words' because something in his make-up is drawn to what is forbidden. Maybe. But perhaps the problem is profanity is part and parcel of pop music. Since I don't follow pop music [well, I am a Dixie Chicks fan and their music is sometimes controversial]--the music parties are where I get my brief exposure--I do wonder. About the state of language in that world.
An aside: My father's favorite hummingbird is back. Boss Hog. He's the hummingbird that fights off all the rest from the feeders on the farm. Oh, I realize it's a different Boss Hog every year, but we like to pretend it's the same aggressive male. Anyway, yesterday I dropped by Barnes and Noble and bought Seals & Crofts from 1972--"Summer Breeze"--just for the "Hummingbird" cut. Hadn't heard it in years. Still exciting and good to hear. I don't think it had any profanity, but.
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I think profanity may be part and parcel of 'some' pop music, but not all. Not being a big fan of pop music, I couldn't say for sure. But I think my own kids are kind turned off by it. I think my oldest is most fond of Smashmouth (which I only know from Shrek) and the youngest likes Beethoven, Jimmy Buffett, and April Lavigne. (Okay, Jimmy Buffett does get a bit rowdy ... not sure whether he curses, but it can't be that frequently if he does.)
Is it possible the kid was prone to hyperbole? I mean, a lot of times kids are not really great at communicating exactly what they think (I kinda suspect the same is true for a lot of adults) - mostly because they don't really have the mental discipline to work through exactly what they think or why they think it.
I really missed out on the music part of my education when I was growing up. Unlike with my experience with gym class where my "teachers" were mostly incompetent losers, and some of the other courses where it was a mix of bad teaching and good teaching along with my own boneheadedness, my music teachers, I think were mostly pretty good. My failure to gain anything of value there was entirely my own fault. (Music was the only class I was ever thrown out of - and rightly so.) Of course I'm not trying to say your scenario isn't a tragedy. I have some regret now for my former intransigence. I suspect that boy will too, if he really believes what he says.
OTOH, it seems like a digression could be made under the umbrage of the SOL
"Investigate, the third strand, involves students in the study and practice of music theory through music reading, notation, and sight-reading. It also requires the use of critical thinking skills to analyze the manner in which music is organized. Students will identify the style and distinctive characteristics of music which delineate each of the basic music historical periods, as well as the influence of twentieth century technology and compositional techniques employed in all genres of music. Students will also investigate the vocal timbres that are unique to children, adolescents, and adults. Students will be guided in the development of criteria for making informed artistic judgments about music, and the other arts, and for evaluating the role of music in society."
Also, I wonder if you could send home via "infogram" or communicate by other means this episode to parents. It's kinduva double-edged sword there - I know I used to really get insulted by the "advice" my kids bring from the schools.
But it's possible to make a statement, I think, that parents could be informed by (and presumably read between the lines). I mean, I think parents would be interested in this - even if this particular boy is failed, perhaps some other parent could gain some insight and appreciation for "your" job. I don't think you would even have to comment on the situation. Simply relating the event might be sufficient for most people to connect the dots.
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> good music has cuss words
I think he's pretty much on the money - depending on how you interpret it. I assume that by music, the boy means a tune with spoken or sung words rather than instrumental music. Children we know love deft lyrical constructions, particularly ones which are witty, outlandish and rhythmic. And everybody knows at least one 'dirty nursery rhyme' or perverse corruption of an original - so why is it so surprising, or disturbing that kids like Eminem? Wordsworth tried to convince his readers of the honesty of 'everyday language' but apparently many weren't listening. If, for example, hiphop offends though, it's because it's not meant for everyone, it captivates though realistic portrayals of certain groups of society. A Viennese waltz or N’SYNC will offend me, because to me its heartless, soulless, unfeeling tripe.
If I'm not mistaken 'cuss' comes from 'curse' which has strong religious ties. It's interesting that now, much the same as the time of the ethnic bias imposed by the conquerors of 11th century England, the Latin word 'faeces' and the French 'poop' are considered fine, whereas the Anglish 'shit' is still 'crude and vulgar'. The idea of 'cussing' represents something which is adversarial in nature, something about which one wishes to express strong feelings of opposition. This stance is intrinsic to hiphop often seen as the vent and outlet for young male aggression. If we take the role-model heroine Brittany Spears as a counter example, one's got ask: Is a man talking about a young girl dressed up like a 'hoe' worse than a girl doing exactly that for money and being idolised by her impressionable peers? In such a well-documented society of repression as the U.S. there will always be backlash against swear words which, in turn, gives their usage credence and effect - but talk about double standards! In time we will realise that that which we regard as 'strong language' is above all a product social conditioning and that even the worst bloody[sic] swear words fade into the mush of standard vocab eventually. Some country boy who is now 'the king' was considered a danger to society once, and now 'the most dangerous threat to American children since polio' (GWB) is Eminem! Well funk that!
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Carpal Tunnel
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belligerentyouth...
Do you think good music necessarily contains profanity? I doubt it. As far as cuss...curse...religious ties go: I don't believe there's very much of religion expressed in popular music containing profanity. If there is, point me to the group just so I can satisfy my curiosity.
I'm not arguing here that in order for music to be 'good' it should not have profanity. That is far from my argument. There are too many examples of music that has qualities many enjoy that also happens to have a 'cuss' word here and there or maybe all throughout.
Some good music has profanity. So be it.
The whole point of my expressed disturbance over this ten-year-old boy's description of what he calls 'good music' is that 'all the good music has cuss words'--and then his ensuing disappointment that music with 'cuss words' is not allowed to be played at school. I would never criticize this boy for what he has learned and how he has come to evaluate music. I simply listened to his explanation after I'd asked him why he wasn't looking forward to the party. And I learned what was his point of view. But it disturbed me that he had not found a body of songs from which he would have gladly--like many other children--brought a few to school that would have still fallen under that range of what can be played in a public school. I brought it up here because I suspect that this boy is probably not alone in how he feels about the music the school allows, and also because musical lyrics are part of what expression is about; ergo, our word board discussions.
Someone up there in the thread earler--perhaps it was Fallible--pointed out that it is probably a trait of the boy's age to exaggerate. Perhaps he does have a few songs he likes that actually don't have any 'cuss words.'
But it is this boy's overall impression of language in song that I find disturbing--I certainly would feel the same kind of disturbance if my own daughter expressed that all the 'good music' has cuss words.
Ten years old? This is no age of innocence--scatological, damning words rhythmically and evocatively capturing and somehow affecting his attention and concept of goodness? But more disturbing: his concept of allness or his world view.
What is lacking is a sense of balance.
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> Do you think good music necessarily contains profanity?
Yeah, I can see I didn't make myself very clear. I certainly understand why you see his comment as 'disturbing', but I was trying to see it through the eyes of a kid though, who looks for attention through the shock value of abrasive language. I mean, he may just have thought it a dope thang to say in the first place. When you say, 'Bring in some music' I doubt he's thinking of the world of music that is evoked in your mind. I think he probably only sees the power of 'music' amongst his peers in a very direct, raw and crude use of lyrics which will attract attention and make him look daring in front of his friends. The group entertainment factor of comic novelty music (like the aforementioned 'Baby got back') is very high. Assuming this standpoint, and with the lewd possibilities stricken, I'm not sure I could think of much 'good music' to bring in either.
Aside: I just discovered the delights of the throat singers of Tuva (or Tyva) via the great story of Paul Pena's journeys there. Anyone interested in singing in general or perhaps familiar with Tibetan monk or Bantu pygmy singing will be enthralled by this music.
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Carpal Tunnel
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My son comes out of his room the other day, with 6 safety pins across the front of his perfectly good, not torn t-shirt.
I guess you can be glad they're not across his perfectly good face!
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Carpal Tunnel
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Aside: I just discovered the delights of the throat singers of Tuva (or Tyva) via the great story of Paul Pena's journeys there.
Isn't Tuva the place Richard Feynman made a crusade of also?
If so there is a delightful NPR TV broadcast on the subject.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Genghis Blues is the name of the program Crispy (by) is refering to. http://www.genghisblues.com/
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