|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
|
OP
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692 |
Listening to the radio this morning I heard the phrase “it’s all gone pear shaped”. It’s pretty commonly used here in the UK to describe a situation that’s gone sadly awry. Is it used in the same way elsewhere, and does anyone know its origin?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Sweet Thing, Atomica directed me to try piriform, which had an alt. sp. of pyriform. That rang a bell, so I searched, and...I don't know whether I am grinning or blushing the harder! AND, we never DID find the source! http://wordsmith.org/board/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=5170
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
"To go pear shaped is an expression used to indicate that a scheme has not been perfectly executed.
The phrase seems to have originated in British English in the late 1940s or early 1950s. I have come
across several suggested origins, but the best, for me, is related to training aircraft pilots. At some stage they are encouraged to try to fly loops - very difficult to make perfectly circular; often the trainee
pilot's loops would go pear shaped."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
Doesn't seem the kind of origin which would bring it into general usage, though, Bill. I'd suggest that it describes something in the round which didn't quite make it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
Oh, I dunno, pfranz; a whole lot of air-force (and army) slang got into the language around the time of the "nd World War. "Prang", meaning crash, were used about motor accidents for years afterwards, so was "it's a bit if a bind", meaning that it was an onerous duty.
The popularity of airforce slang was probably enhanced by a radio comedy show called Much-Binding-in-the-Marsh starring Kenneth Horne and Richard Murdoch as Officer-in-Charge and subaltern on a mythical airfield, Much-Binding-in-the-Marsh, somewhere in southern England - the name itself is a skit on the type of village name common in those parts.
But the script was redolent with air force slang and some of it certainly became common usage. Having said that, i cannot recall that they ever used the expression, "pear-shaped."
However, there were other routes for slang to become common parlance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
I've always associated "pear-shpaed" with good, singers' pear-shaped tones, Satie's Three Pieces in the Form of a Pear, so saying "something has gone all pear-shaped" meaning it's gone wrong doesn't sound right to me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
|
|
OP
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692 |
Well, Jackie, seems to me I should be blushing for not checking back myself! Anyway, thanks for that, it made fun reading and if I hadn’t posted then Dr Bill’s suggestion would not have been made. He may well be right I think; as Rhuby said, many RAF terms did get into the language, although recently this one seems to have had a new lease on life. Much-Binding-in-the-Marsh. My, that’s going back a long way. Remember the radio set that always took a long time to warm up? Sam Costa with his: 'Good morning Sir, was there something?' I found this: http:// http://www.whirligig-tv.co.uk/radio/mbitm.htmThere seem to be other sites, but I haven’t explored them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
What an excellent memory-lane, dxb! (once I had removed the redundant duplication of "http://")
I had forgotten Sam Costa's catch-phrase, but still remembered Dudley Davenport and, "I say! I am a fool!"
And Dickie Murdoch singing, to the tune of The Egyptian Ballet (?? not sure if that's the right name!) a set of nonsense verses, on the lines of; "My aunt's name is Aloisous Watermelon, // She lives down at Burton-on-Trent. // When she rides to market on a bicycle // She always gets her handle-bars bent." - and more of a similar nature.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear Capfka: That was a quotation from an ex- Brit airforce person, apparently.
Armed forces phrases are taken over and changed by civlians. Capisce?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
Bill, I capiche how these things happen. It's just that I'm morally certain that's not how this one did. Much more mundane, I'm afraid.
And, Rhuby, my trouble an' strife is going to Burton-upon-Trent tomorrow to get her new van repaired. Hope this isn't a lomen. Damn. How did "lemon" get spelled that way anyway? Shuddap, Bill!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
Yes, precisely, Bingley. Loadsa fun ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
A common explanation, the one accepted by Oxford Dictionaries,
is that it comes from Royal Air Force slang. However, nobody
there or anywhere else seems to know why. Some say that it
may have been applied to the efforts of pilots to do aerobatics,
such as loops. It is notoriously difficult (I am told) to get
manoeuvres like this even roughly circular, and instructors would
describe the resulting distorted route of the aircraft as
pear-shaped.
I’ve not seen firm evidence to convince me of this explanation,
which sounds a little far-fetched, but that’s the best I can do
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
The Oxford is often wrong or incomplete, Bill. How much time do you think they can afford to spend verifying the etymology of every single entry? They probably accepted the definition for lack of another rather than because they were convinced that it is true.
It is a very, very doubtful one. If it were common air force slang I'd believe it, but it's not.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
Dear pfranz: I'm impressed that you feel superior to the OED2. As Leo Durocher said,
show me a good loser, and I'lll show you a loser.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
FTR, OED2 has nothing to say about this pejorative usage of pear-shaped; but the online version has a New Entry marked "draft entry March 2003", which includes this:
3. colloq. (chiefly Brit., orig. R.A.F. slang). to go (also turn) pear-shaped: to go (badly)
wrong, to go awry.
1983 J. ETHELL & A. PRICE Air War South Atlantic 158 There were two bangs very close together. The whole aircraft shook and things went ‘pear-shaped’ very quickly after that. The controls ceased to work, the nose started to go down. 1989 Air Forces Monthly Feb. 53/2 When a disadvantaged fighter manages to manoeuvre back into a neutral position, it is a sign to the attacker that things are already going pear-shaped. 1995 FourFourTwo Sept. 108/1 The day itself was one of those prize-winningly crappy days when everything went pear shaped. 1999 J. CASSIDY Street Life 118 Next we travelled to Bournemouth and it was there that things began to turn rather pear-shaped.
the RAF supposition seems to be based (per usual) on the first citations found in print.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
I have to confess that origin from difficulty in making perfectly circular loops seems
a bit improbable. In the first place, why in hell would airforce place any value on ability
to make perfect circle. In secondplace, pilot could not have any point of reference to
judge his circle by. And unless he were skywriting, nobody could judge his success
in approximating perfect circle. Bad cess to OED.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542 |
hey guys? there's nothin' in the OED entry (or citations) about deformed loops. more like suggestions of bottoming out. <g>
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,439 |
Well, then there is the possibility of a sexual innuendo .... not that I would ever trail my pure white robes in that gutter  Par example : "When I was young I had an hour glass figure but as I've aged its gone all pear shaped." Chuckle chuckle chuckle!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 508
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 508 |
Since you brought it up, Wow, and not to generalize, but why is it women tend to pear as they age, while men apple? Think about it. Or not. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,204 |
P'raps it's because women go about in twos, whilst ment join a corps, nancyk.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,371
Members9,182
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
761
guests, and
1
robot. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
