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Posts: 180
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"well, there are some bad managers out there..
one of the points of the book is most people start out as eager, happy, excited.. and with poor
management, they become disgruntled, sullen workers.. and management often complains and tells them
to buck up.. they see it at as a morale problem, when in reality it is often a larger problem
(and sometimes it can't be "managed")"
As far as I'm concerned, the only thing I can manage is myself. If someone else slacks off and gets paid or somehow rewarded for it, I can't really see what I accomplish by being less than I am by way of revenge. If someone hires me (for pay or as a volunteer) the agreement is that I will do what I say, and they will respond as they have said they will. Wasting time and energy figuring out whether it's unfair for someone to do less and get rewarded for it is tempting, but ultimately a waste of, well, time and energy. Intentionally working more slowly than a coworker so they can be given more work is behavior that is a common strategy, but it's nothing to do with how I do my job. It's between that other worker and his/her conscience, it seems to me. The whole situation can be very hard to swallow; I know that from experience. You can't control other people's behavior, only your own response to it.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
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Re:As far as I'm concerned, the only thing I can manage is myself.
yup, that is true-- and as a result, you are a managers dream-- but many people get caught up in politics, and group dynamics.. and if we are all being paid to do work, and i am not, and you constantly have to pick up my slack, and the manager does nothing.. you have seveal choices.. do nothing, talk to me or managment.. or change jobs..
when i was a (acting) manager ata company (for less than 6 months) they were laying off, and contracting, and years of poor managment meant they were hemoraging people.. i got a 'team' of employees, all under 30, most with less than 5 years at the company, and a boom market.. between "upper management" decisions, and other factors(people quit or were fired for actions that i was not involved in,(ie, one employee was caught stealing by customer at customer site, and was arrested!),i had 75% turn over in employees in 6 months-- and then i was told, i didn't successfull manage to meet all the upper managment set goals! (like improved morale!)
smart dissatisfied employee 'vote with their feet'.. smart satisfied employees remain for ever!
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old hand
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old hand
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If someone else slacks off and gets paid or somehow rewarded for it, I can't really see what I accomplish by being less than I am by way of revenge.
I read this last night and remember thinking that it's admirable, but you must not be like "most people", who would become demoralized (as helen said) and leave at the first opportunity. Salient example: My husband worked in a factory for a little over a year. There were about six or seven guys in his section, and he produced a full ONE HALF of their section's output. And he got paid the same crummy wage as the others, regardless. Let me tell you, he never let his work slack off to their level, but he was counting down the days until he was out of that hell-hole. I think that's the sort of thing that better management would have avoided: they would've seen that most of the guys weren't working, and fired them, and replaced them with guys who actually HAD a work ethic. Instead, the whole factory got a raise, slackers and all, when production hit a certain number of units per day for a given time period. It may emphasize "team playing", but it teaches the slackers they don't have to do any work, and they'll still get a raise, and it teaches the hard workers to get the hell out of there. Interestingly, I heard the factory is floundering now. Good thing he got out when he did is all I can say.
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"I read this last night and remember thinking that it's admirable, but you must not be like "most people",
who would become demoralized (as helen said) and leave at the first opportunity. "
On the contrary. That's exactly what I would do. Have done. It's demoralizing when you don't have that option. But that's the best reason for running your life so that you have as many choices as possible. If you don't have a conspicuously marketable skill, try get along with management and co-workers where you work until you have learned enough to move on. Try to be valuable until something you like better comes along.
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old hand
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OK, after giving it some thought, maybe there are two types of people:
(A) Those who become demoralized, try to learn from the experience, and move on (like you), and
(B) Those who become demoralized and then become unproductive and unhappy, but won't (or don't realize they can) do anything about it.
I think there are substantial numbers of B types around, but depending on the circles you move in, you might never meet many B's. My husband's old job, on the other hand, was full of B-types - guys who could've done well but allowed themselves to be dragged down by the others.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Reading "Othello" and here's Iago on 'management'-- (sortof):
O, sir, content you;
I will follow him to serve my turn upon him:
We cannot all be masters, nor all masters
Cannot be truly follow'd. You shall mark
Many a duteous and knee-crooking knave,
That doting on his own obsequious bondage
Wears out his time, much like his master's ass,
For nought but provender, and when he's old, cashier'd:
Whip me such honest knaves
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Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
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How the hell did Willy the Word know about egg plc's management style? Was he a mate of Nostradamus'?
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Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
There were about six or seven guys in his section, and he produced a full ONE HALF of their section's output. And he got paid the same crummy wage as the others
This is exactly why my daughter has always hated being forced to do group projects in school. SHE will do what is supposed to be done; but that isn't necessarily the case with some of the others, and she doesn't want her grade to suffer on account of them.
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This reminds me of a slightly related story:
I was working in my first retail job, as a young, energetic, enthusiastic 20 year old. The owners of the small, family owned store, took an extended vacation, putting me in charge in their absence. Before they left, the wife and I discussed, briefly, some projects for me to do while I was in charge. I was given specific instructions for a couple of the projects, but was given carte blanche for the others.....about 10 in all.
So, I worked like a Trojan and completed all of the projects, using my own ingenuity and ideas. I was feeling wonderfully successful and creative by the time my bosses returned.
As they oohed and ahhed over my work, they kept saying, *they* really had some good ideas and were glad they gave them to me to execute. I was stunned! They were not egotistical or tyrannical bosses, but they honesty thought they had been the creative genious behind ALL of the ideas........and I was only the laborer who carried out their ideas.
Protesting this belief they held, would have only served to make me look like sour grapes, so I kept my mouth shut. But, I soon wised up that I would always be their little lackey, however much they valued me. So, I moved on about 6 months after that, to manage my own store.
Not sure why I told this story.....it seemed to fit when I started it!
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,526 |
Surely there are those who respond to criticism better (justified or not) than others. Probably there is some continuum of response. But I suspect very few people are happy to admit ignorance - and for almost all people, it's particularly difficult to admit ignorance to someone who is really obnoxious.
The gist of things is this:
There are different modes of learning, but one of the most important goes something like this:
Observe the world
Build an internal model of how things fit together
Understand the implications of the model
Formulate hypotheses
Perform an action (which might be physical, mental, or verbal)
See what happens (measure the response)
Draw an inference about whether the action had the intended consequences
Revise the model or conduct further test of hypothesis
Briefly:
step 1. make a mistake and learn from it
step 2. repeat step until enlightenment occurs
Making mistakes - to include oversights, etc, is a natural part of learning FOR EVERYONE. But in our society (not just american society, either, as I discern a similar approach is common throughout the west) tends to vilify ignorance. Those who are percieved as naive or unworldly are either discounted or vilified.
(I'll have more to say on this later.)
k
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