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Carpal Tunnel
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Last night on TV, I was watching a programme in which Sir Peter Ustinov was retracing Mark Twain's voyage around the world. The episode featured Hawaii, Australia, and New Zealand. Apart from learning a lot about the American subjugation and annexation of Hawaii, I was reminded of another uniquely New Zealand regionalism. Upon arrival in NZ, Ustinov was shown driving along a country road, narrating as he went. He said "I'm in North Island," and that's what gave him away as someone not from New Zealand. An editorial here once remarked upon this distinction. NZers almost invariably use the article. I, for example would automatically say that I live in the North Island, while my aunt lives in the South Island. The editorial commented that this indicates that NZers are not treating North and South as the names of the islands, simply as compass designations. Ever since reading that article years ago, I have listened out for examples, and found that by far the majority of people from outside NZ (excluding most Australians - the 400,000 NZers living there have probably had an influence on that) treat North and South as titles, in the same way Ustinov did.
The shame here is that the three main islands have aurally pleasing, and historically relevant Maori names, which I think ought to be adopted as the official names of the islands, so that instead of the North Island, the South Island, and Stewart Island, we would have te Ika a Maui, te Wai Pounamu, and Rakiura.
Believe it or not, there really is a question after all that background context. Does anybody else use English in a subtle but distinctively different way to refer to their home, analogous to the way NZers retain the article when talking about our main islands? Something small, not necessarily dialect, but a dead giveaway for distinguishing Outlanders from "indigenous" residents?
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Joined: May 2000
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newbie
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newbie
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This is probably not quite what you're getting at, but it's sort of related in that it relies on differences between insiders and outsiders. It does, however, involve the almost opposite use of the definite article from the example that you cite. I've noticed that Christians talk about themselves 'going to church' and Jewish people (for example) 'going to the synagogue'. Jewish friends of mine, on the other hand, speak of themselves as 'going to synagogue' and Christians as 'going to the church'. Sorry if this is a red herring - maybe it's because I'm currently 'into' Dorothy Sayers.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I've noticed that Christians talk about themselves 'going to church' and Jewish people (for example) 'going to the synagogue'. Jewish friends of mine, on the other hand, speak of themselves as 'going to synagogue' and Christians as 'going to the church'
Thanks, Lucy, that was exactly the sort of subtle difference in usage I was interested in hearing about.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I grew up in a town called Beaconsfield (about half way to Oxford from London). The first part of the name is pronounced like beckon by locals and like beacon by people from elsewhere. It was noticeable that my mother, a local girl, used the beckon pronunication, while my father, a Londoner, used the beacon pronunciation.
Bingley
Bingley
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Carpal Tunnel
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It was noticeable that my mother, a local girl, used the beckon pronunication, while my father, a Londoner, used the beacon pronunciation.
Et tu?
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Carpal Tunnel
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Moi? I beckon not beacon.
Bingley
Bingley
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Pooh-Bah
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I thought I'd posted something about place names before but it is lost in the ether, so here goes ...I can think of quite a few place names that cause visitors problems, not all of them Welsh - see Rhydycroaesau and Llanfyllyn http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=words&Number=2542
as well as the wonderful place mentioned at http://wordsmith.org/board/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=miscellany&Number=1580Shrewsbury has three different pronunciations, according to where the speaker comes from. Likewise Southwell in Nottinghamshire is a name which helps to differentiate locals from outsiders. I'm sure that there are lots of others. Personal names like St. John and Cholmondley cause amusement for their people in the know.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Personal names like St. John and Cholmondley cause amusement for their people in the know.
I look forward to meeting someone called Sinjin-chumley, perhaps picking them up from llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch before taking them to
Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapimaungahoronukupokaiwhenuaakitanarahu
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Carpal Tunnel
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While I have enjoyed the diversion into the way that different pronunciation can distinguish "insiders" from "outsiders", I also find it interesting that so far there have only been two examples where usage would mark the difference. This is interesting, as no one would expect an outsider to know the correct pronunciation, of say, Llanfairgogoch. Variations in usage, however, are more tricky. As an example, a visitor could practice saying "Taumarunui" until they were able to pronounce it perfectly, but still give themselves away by saying that "Taumarunui" was in "North Island." That's why I liked Lucy's parallel example - the pronunciation and accent could be identical, but the usage would still be distinctive.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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I love the way AltaVista tried, soooo hard to find the place you mentioned, it didn't find any sites but valiantly came up with the following suggestions:
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I'm very tempted to try the latter. I wonder how many bids I'd get?
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