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#74290 06/28/02 07:50 AM
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Hi, of troy!

I want to set the record straight about the nature of friendship as I see it. I would have to say that I am a friend to Keiva. Not a close friend, but at least one who wishes him well, and I'm sincere in that wish.

However, I believe friends can have serious disagreements about conduct. I believe friends can do things that we believe are categorically wrong and injurious. I believe friends can even do things that make it impossible for a long, long while for our continuing what was once an exchange of humor and lightness. We can condemn the actions of friends, separate ourselves from them under dire circumstances, but, deep inside, still hope for their recovery.

What we have here is a horrible situation. I agree that Keiva is not welcome here and that he should find a new outlet for his more positive qualities. The place isn't here anymore. There are other waters for good fishing. The fish recognize his hooks here, and swim madly in the other direction.

I pity him and I pity the members here for having to put up with him. But I am his friend, and I must admit to that fact in spite of the fact that few would be able to understand from where that impulse comes.

Hoping you, of troy, might understand--and I think you will knowing you as I do.

Best regards,
WW


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You could, of course, go back to January of this year, and who knows, even before that, and find thread after thread that you have started with list after list after list of some petty slight that you perceived again and again..
it hardly compares to our paltry showing!

for months we have endured your threads full of complaints about the way we behave, and now finally we are all complainting about you.

since you don't like our behaviours, collectively, and you have single handedly driven away a score or more long time (18 months or more) people who post, and almost as many newly registrered people, and you are contstantly being told you are not welcome, why don't you just leave? your work is done here. he have nuked the board just as you said you would. go away. you are not wanted here


#74292 06/28/02 11:43 AM
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not welcome here

What sort of conduct is not welcome here, friend?

I think you said it quite well in your lovely post, now deleted, asking that we eschew personal disagreements and personal attacks.


#74293 06/28/02 12:23 PM
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Keiva: we never had a flamewar until you started one and would not quit
You were justifiably banned, and used extortion to have ban lifted.
You will never be welcome here.


#74294 06/28/02 12:47 PM
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What sort of behavior is not welcome here?

Well, the very first thing that comes to mind is your almost maniacal keeping (and posting) of comments that lash out at you.

Second, the fact that you have invited me, at least, to argue with people publicly on board when you have deemed them in the wrong. You certainly respected my expressed wish not to argue on board myself. Still, your invitation to argue on board disturbed me. I saw no winners in such arguments.

Third, your refusal to accept the ban. I believe there is not a single person here, other than you Keiva, who would have insisted returning after such a ban.

I don't believe you have enough empathy, Keiva, to understand how your files on people's posts cause a group chill in our bones. This place is not a court of law, yet you appear to attempt to turn it into one. Again and again you demand proof. And each and every time you do so, I cringe. It's the fact of the demand that is disturbing.

You could have gotten off that horse on which you ride a long time ago, and all--all--would have been forgotten. There was a window of opportunity in which I would have believed, had you gotten off that horse, that you had learned a lesson in how we can get along here and learn to look the other way. Sure, everybody here has probably written something (or several things) that have been regretted during the reflective times, but you just never did. You appear always ready to fight, and, you use words so well, you seem to fight when using sweet words.

Oh, there's been a lot of good advice here. Would each of us have taken the good advice. Would you have taken it months ago. But now we are at this place. You, a single person who keeps files on us, you a single person who was kicked off the board, you a single person who ostensibly needs a great deal of attention, have caused many people to no longer visit here. The sacrifice of 30 odd members for one who was kicked out of the group seems too many to me.

I repeat: I would by far rather sacrifice my own posting on this board than to lose 30 voices, many of whom were here before I was.

Not a single person here, Keiva, has been able to show you that you went too far, even beyond the regrettable comments other members have made, my own included.

I don't keep files, but I do have memory of people who have written to you reasonably about why your presence is no longer welcome, yet you heed not a single one of those voices.

What sort of conduct is not welcome here? The keeping of files and habitually posting them; the refusal to accept Jackie's judgement, that you would no longer post; the refusal to leave the board when your posting here had been rejected; and, finally, the implied threat of taking someone to court if you were not readmitted to the board--that last source of your no longer being welcome is the one we have least information about, so you can throw it out the window if there is not a filament of basis to it.

And I really am your friend though I have had little influence over you to date to restore this place to one of general peace.

Again, I pity you in your ignorance, and I pity board members who cannot find heart to write here anymore, though I suppose people don't really give a lick about having anyone's pity.

WW


#74295 06/28/02 02:13 PM
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Dear Stasi,

I disagree with the opinion given in this thread that you use words well, unless, that is, to use words well is to make other people miserable. Apart from that, your style is as pompous and playless as your contributions here are vicious and mean -spirited.

Dear Stasi,

What happened to you a-way back when?

Dear Stasi,

Why don't you please go away and find out?


#74296 06/28/02 02:28 PM
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#74297 06/28/02 07:26 PM
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Dear ewein,

I in no way use the word "pity" to mean condescension. I use it exactly, precisely to import compassion. And I pity myself that I have felt the necessity of publicly addressing Keiva, but so much has been written publicly that I felt compelled to express that which troubles me here.

In the spirit of sincerity, I remain yours with best regards,
WW


#74298 06/28/02 09:13 PM
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#74299 06/28/02 10:30 PM
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Not a single person here, Keiva, has been able to show you that you went too far, even beyond the regrettable comments other members have made, my own included.

"...the refusal to accept Jackie's judgement..."


The End.


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