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#29565 05/25/01 08:40 PM
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If you went to a meadow and recorded birdsong, you would have an auscultation of larks.


#29566 05/28/01 08:28 AM
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Just a final note:
I went to the cinema on the weekend and at the beginning of the film a booming voice announced:

This film is shown in ....(pop, bang, squeak) THX

I had to think of wideyed


#29567 05/28/01 12:10 PM
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One way around the "hole" has not been mentioned so far, and I find it nice enough: to share (the impression) with somebody (can also apply to smells and tastes).


#29568 05/28/01 03:04 PM
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>to share... (can also apply to smells and tastes)

unfortunately, the taste (and smell) of this has been ruined (at least for me) by the ubiquitous "let me share this with you" feel-good usage.
-joe bfstlk



#29569 05/28/01 04:03 PM
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incidentally,

in japanese it's very easy to turn the verb back on its object. it's the difference between "do something" and "have someone do something".
so, "yaru" (to do) "yaraseru" (to have someone do). most verbs go easily into this form.
it just doesn't go easily into english in most cases - and "have someone do something" sounds like it's against their will.
thinking about it in these terms (and looking at all the posts so far) it's plain there is no easy way in english to make this form, but
"I'll get you to do something" can sound okay.
it's kind of limited in use -only the "will" form sounds kind (and even then not necessarily):
"he got me to listen to his cds" has connotations (the japanese equivalent wouldn't).
"he played his cds for me"
"he took me to the tom waits concert"
are the ways we get around this lack.
don't kids make this mistake all the time: "he listened me his cds"?
just like the old "borrow/lend" confusion.

what can you do? it's language, and whatever we can't express easily we express with difficulty.



#29570 05/28/01 04:12 PM
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...whatever we can't express easily we express with difficulty.

...or conjure up a word for it!


#29571 05/29/01 10:57 AM
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Okay, this is the area of linguistics that I'm really interested in without having any special expertise. So, captive audience, pay heed!

English, to me, is a forward looking and indicative language. We have lots of ways of making the present and the future work well and easily, more than most languages. We seem to have about the same number of past tense formations as most other European languages. Please bear with me, I haven't much time, certainly not enough to give examples of what I mean by that last statement.

We handle the future with aplomb. Look at the awkwardness of German's future tense formation, and Latinate languages generally only have one approach to future sentence and verb formation. Yes, there are exceptions, but not as many as in English. We can muck around in the future with a will.

But English does handle some things very awkwardly and the double genitive issue discussed in this thread is one of them. If we had case agreement, I guess it would be easier. As someone (NickW? tsuwm?) has pointed out, the use of the possessive apostrophe is uncertain and failing To say the formation "a friend of Molly's" is correct based on its existence and usage since the 14th century is actually begging the question. Technically, "a friend of Molly" must be correct, because the double genitive formation is logically wrong, even though it has an honoured history and is seen as grammatically correct. Not trying to buy a fight here, just pointing it out.

But we put up with this stuff because of the other freedoms that English sentence formation allows us. The orient/orientate argument could hardly exist in many other languages because of their more rigid syntactic structures.

But, hey, it's what makes English such an interesting critter!



The idiot also known as Capfka ...
#29572 05/29/01 11:44 AM
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to buy a fight... an interesting critter

Shoulder to shoulder, CK.


#29573 05/30/01 11:31 AM
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Thanks everybody for help . I'm off for a long, hopefully nice weekend - - -
PS what exactly are the sounds of Lancaster RC, and are they worth an 'ear?


I hope you had a good week end and that it is now getting stronger
As to the sounds of Lancaster - they are the low and awful groan of a long-oppressed people, serfs, suffering under the heel of the capitalist overlords as they suffered under the feudal John o'Gaunt, who dream of the day when they will rise and conquer the whole world. No doubt to oppress it in their turn. (says he, cynically)
Mostly, in fact, it is the sound of silence, except on a Saturday night, when it is the sound of breaking glass, obscene shouts, the depositing of pavement pizzas and the wail of police sirens.
So they tell me!




#29574 05/30/01 11:34 AM
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But not forgetting, Rhuby, the fine sounds of Shakespeare in the Park when the Dukes goes promenading?


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