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Joined: May 2001
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4 |
This is my first post here, please forgive me if I'm out of line...
I was wondering why the name Richard is also known as Dick
and vice versa.
I couldn't find an answer anywhere.
Yours,
Guy.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
Welcome aboard, guy!
I don't know the answer, but along the same lines...why is Jack "short" for John? Someone help us!
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
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Hi, guy!
You aren't the only one to wonder at that transformation. Not only are there the Richard/Dick pair and the John/Jack pair, but I've also wondered at William/Bill and Robert/Bob. Just a WAG: the latter two suggest that Bs are somehow easier to pronounce and so were substituted for the original initial letters in the shortened versions, and the Dick formation might be similar. But John to Jack?
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 819 |
But John to Jack?
Just to add to the obfuscation, one finds quite a few Frenchmen named Jean-Jacques. The John/Jack pairing doesn't make any sense across the channel, it seems, since the names are clearly different.
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858 |
I think it all goes back several hundred years when "nicknames" were apparently widely used for children, no matter what they were christened.And many of them sound like babytalk, or the parent't imitation of it. I have seen "Hitch" as nickname for Richard,and the name "Hitchcock" meant "Little Richard." I have seen several others that I cannot recall at the moment.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156 |
I think it all goes back several hundred years when "nicknames" were apparently widely used for children, no matter what they were christened.And many of them sound like babytalk, or the parent't imitation of it. I have seen "Hitch" as nickname for Richard,and the name "Hitchcock" meant "Little Richard." I have seen several others that I cannot recall at the moment.After my above post, I was thinking that maybe there is no logic to it. And if enough people call me Bean, when my real name is Cristina, then maybe that will spread and in a couple of hundred years, people will be wondering how "Bean" came to be short for "Cristina". Ha ha! 
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1 |
"I don't know the answer, but along the same lines...why is Jack "short" for John? Someone help us!"
I'm so glad to have found this discussion because I love the etymology of names. (Let me warn you that this is just speculation; do not take this for absolute truth but just my theory- nor do I guarantee that my spelling of the ancient names is correct.) As for Jack, that one is very interesting. As far as I can tell, it is derivitive more of Jacob than of John. The Hebrew name Yaakov was transliterated into Greek as Iakobos. This name then took many different paths. It turned into the various forms of Jacob, on the one hand, but in many dialects of Italian it became not just Giaccopo but Giaccomo. In French, these became Jacques, but in English, Giaccomo became James. That's why the letter of "Iacobos" in the New Testament is translated as the letter of "James." I always had thought, then, that Jack, which is like Jacques, was a nickname for James.
Perhaps the John/Jack relation is, indeed, due to mixing up "Jean" and "Jacques" in the French name Jean-Jacques, as much of the English language is adapted French. But perhaps it hearkens back to the original Hebrew name, Iokannon, from which the Greek "Ioannes" is derived, and consequently all of the modern European equivalents. But this is unlikely.
If I'm incorrect or if anyone has more complete information, your input is much desired.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Oct 2000
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The English "William" also starts with a "G" in Italian-- and the Gallic versions of the names have came back to English as new names-- William-- drops the Wi (there is no W in gallic) and becomes Liam, John ( J too, is missing became Sean (from the french Jean-) or Ian -- James became Shamus.
I always thought Richard to Rich- to Rick to Dick.. And Margaret to Marge --Margy Meg- Meggy- Peggy.
And some might just be childish corruptions--Judith-- to Judy-- to DeeDee-- because a older brother "heard" Judy as DeeDee. That's the same way my cousin Tansy got named-- Frances to Francie to Tansy..
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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An Editor I know named Robert was nicknamed "Buzz" and a Doctor of my acquaintance, Charles, is nicknamed Chappy.  Odd nicknames is but one more reason why I am happy with my name!
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2001
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Nicknames can be serious matters. A recent New Yorker cartoon showed a young executive with a worried look asking another: "What does is mean when the CEO does not call you by your nickname?"
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