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Maven #168635 06/11/07 07:52 PM
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well, english as an advantage, its a thief! when there are idea's that we can't encapsulate in a single work, (and others have) we steal their word.

sometimes a word like amuk is softened down in meaning, other words like boondocks keep pretty close to orginal meaning.

of troy #168637 06/11/07 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: of troy
well, english as an advantage, its a thief!


Not to mention a bastard!

of troy #168638 06/11/07 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: of troy
well, english as an advantage, its a thief! when there are idea's that we can't encapsulate in a single work, (and others have) we steal their word.

sometimes a word like amuk is softened down in meaning, other words like boondocks keep pretty close to orginal meaning.


The meanings of all words are in a continuous state of transition;
words have no ultimate meanings they only serve a function. ~

Last edited by themilum; 06/11/07 09:05 PM.
Maven #168639 06/11/07 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: Maven
Do you think that all languages embody full communication? Or that all languages combined convery mastery of all concepts?

The problem is that not all concepts translate well from a specific language to another specific language. The words, the grammar, the structure, etc are tools used to convery concepts, but some which are not identified by word (either spoken or written). Within a given language group (ie, English) there are so many variations (color vrs colour, as a simple example) that to identify any single language as all encompassing. I can visualize things which I can not adequately describe to share...Language fails on many levels, no matter the mastery.


Language can't fail, Maven, only words can. No word in any language conveys the same exact meaning each time it is used; words can only approximate. And, as for that nebulous word "concept", yes, many concepts can not be expressed easily and succinctly in words other than the originating language, but many concepts are known by many of us that are not capsulized in any language.

Agreed?

_

themilum #168640 06/11/07 10:41 PM
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The use of language fails, perhaps would have been a better phrasing, but that implies that somehow language exists without use, or that communication occurs without language.


tempus edax rerum
Maven #168641 06/11/07 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: Maven
The use of language fails, perhaps would have been a better phrasing, but that implies that somehow language exists without use, or that communication occurs without language.


Yes "the use of language fails" would have been nice phrasing but using that phrase would have semantically changed the meaning.

And, of course, communication occurs without language; ever say "scat" to a cat?

Last edited by themilum; 06/12/07 02:54 AM.
of troy #168687 06/13/07 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: of troy
well, english as an advantage, its a thief! when there are idea's that we can't encapsulate in a single work, (and others have) we steal their word.

sometimes a word like amuk is softened down in meaning, other words like boondocks keep pretty close to orginal meaning.


Anne Curzan made exactly this point in yesterday's chat:

"English is characterized by the massive amount of lexical/word borrowing that speakers have done over the centuries. (Although I think perhaps it is more appropriately called "stealing," as we don't seem to have any plans to return the words!)"

Jackie #168690 06/13/07 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jackie
Welcome, BC (sorry--let me know if the shortening bothers you).
Um--does a mere subject in thought have anything to do with Logwood's mentalese?

-Just in case she missed it

Never could fathom why Jackie carries a can of that stuff around. Always afraid she is going to get snippy and start flinging it.

Last edited by Aramis; 06/14/07 07:37 PM.

Γ╥┐↕
Aramis #168704 06/14/07 04:03 PM
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Ahem, sir. 'Ware, or I might start snipping you! (wink)

Jackie #168709 06/15/07 02:15 PM
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What would it be? Jackie? A haircut or a manicure treatment?

Slovenly Peter
_____________________________________________
(cameo post 2.)

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