#99908
04/03/2003 11:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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The above was a clue in one of the crossword puzzle I did over the last several days. The answer was neuter. Anyone have any problems with the apostrophe in it's?
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#99909
04/03/2003 11:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,156
old hand
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old hand
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The apostrophe makes it look like the title of a musical. All it needs is an exclamation mark.
It's gender!
That aside, I guess you are implying it should have been "Its gender", as in, "the gender of it", not "it is gender".
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#99910
04/03/2003 1:20 PM
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Carpal Tunnel
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It is gender, neuter is, just the negative thereof
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#99911
04/03/2003 2:05 PM
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I'm with Bean. It's the gender of the word it that's the clue. So the clue should have been "Its gender." Better still, although this wouldn't happen in a crossword clue: "Its gender"
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#99912
04/03/2003 4:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
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Disagree. The clue was "It's gender". Remember, it's a cryptic crossword. It just happens that the answer is that it is not gender at all. So "It's gender" is exactly right.
- Pfranz
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#99913
04/03/2003 4:42 PM
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We gotta remember that the gender in question was that of the word it and not that of the antecedent of it.
And, just for the record, it was the standard New York Times Sunday puzzle, not a cryptic. Not that they eschew cryptoid clues in the NYT puzzle on any day.
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#99914
04/03/2003 5:25 PM
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Posts: 4,189
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Well, then, if the gender of "it" was the question and implication, then it was the gender that "it" possesses as a word, so the possessive "its" would be, literally, correct (non-apostrophically speaking). Hey, is apostrophic any relation to annastrophic?  But with the typical calculated ambiguity of crossword clues, the creator could claim it works on both planes...so 'neuter' is a linguistic gender (it's not genderless, in German we'd say 'what gender does it take, feminine, masculine, or neuter?'), therefore, if neuter is "it", then "it" is gender as well. There, now, does that help clear things up a bit?  Would you pass me R.D. Laing's Knots again, please...
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#99915
04/03/2003 6:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
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old hand
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the clue should have been "Its gender." Better still, although this wouldn't happen in a crossword clue: "Its gender"
Apart from the fullstop, what's the difference betwen these two?
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#99916
04/03/2003 6:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10,542
Carpal Tunnel
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sjm, go back to the original, its was bolded (emboldened?) for explicitness (not bloody likely for a crossword).
I must say, I really don't get how "it is [it's] gender" would lead one to the wanted answer.. you'll have to obviousize that one for me, Pfranz! (I think it's a mistake!)
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#99917
04/03/2003 6:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
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old hand
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Thanks, tsuwm, I am critically low in C8H10N4O2 at present, so neither synapse is functioning optimally.
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#99918
04/03/2003 7:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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I give up. Have it your way.
- Pfranz
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#99919
04/03/2003 8:03 PM
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 742
old hand
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old hand
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I give up. Have it your way.
If you are able to take comfort from being damned with the faintest of praise, I'm on your side, Pfranz.
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#99920
04/04/2003 1:40 AM
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Posts: 2,636
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People, you are thinking way too hard. The gender of Morticia's cousin was neuter. Wasn't it? Hard to tell under all that hair.
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#99921
04/04/2003 2:27 AM
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Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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I'll bet the creator of that crossword is reading this thread and laughing his head off! Ok--I'll have to allow that maybe, in some languages, "neuter" is a gender, and that therefore 'it is gender' could be correct. But all my instinct is telling me that the s was meant to indicate possession, and the guy either is ignorant of the rule for 'it' (I wonder if he would think "The foal gamboled alongside its dam" was incorrect?), or he was being deliberately obfuscatory. Somehow I doubt the latter, unless it was designed for the elite of the elite. If it was intended for the general public, I would almost bet money that he intended for "it's" to mean "its": who in the world of the normal would delve so deeply into the use of an apostrophe?? This, I think, is a perfect ex. of what Wordwind was talking about in her 'responses that are actually correct get marked incorrect' post: most people don't sift for all possible meanings--they pick the most obvious one and go with it. But not everybody. Original thinkers (as one of his teachers described my son) often don't do well on tests. I notice this happens a lot in people of really high intellect.
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#99922
04/04/2003 3:19 AM
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Posts: 4,189
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How can you point to its gender without sounding ambiguous?
The gender of it.
The gender of it, the pronoun.
The gender of the pronoun it.
Its gender is genderless.
It has no gender (in English).
Gender has no gender.
Gender is neuter.
Gender is genderless.
Its gender is irrelevant.
So the clue would have to be "Its gender in another language."
"Its gender", in English, does not exist, so the clue is meaningless....it's beyond oxymoronic, it excludes itself.
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#99923
04/05/2003 12:50 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 508
addict
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addict
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 508 |
Aren't we overanalyzing a bit here, folks? Accepted: the clue should have read "its gender." The rationale is simple- take 3 pronouns: he,she,it. If you assign gender to each: masculine, feminine, neuter. End of discussion. Take my word for it, most people (those who are not wordies) would dig no deeper than that. Where is he - you're looking for a male person. Where is she - you're looking for a female person. Where is it - you're looking for an object, neither male nor female.
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#99924
04/05/2003 1:33 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,296
Carpal Tunnel
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Here's something from MW on neuter:
1 a : a noun, pronoun, adjective, or inflectional form or class of the neuter gender b : the neuter gender
Its gender = neuter (neither male nor female and often inanimate, but not necessarily so)
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#99925
04/05/2003 3:46 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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I had my dog, Milo, neutered and he's still a male!  I had my cat, Ginger Cat, neutered and he's still a male!
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#99926
04/06/2003 1:35 AM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,467
Carpal Tunnel
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Many years ago I inherited a dog named Rex from a friend who was leaving town. Rex was so ugly! How ugly was he, Johnny? He was SO ugly that the American Kennel Club paid his previous owner to have him neutered so he wouldn't pass on his ugliness. I'd had Rex about a year when he went out in my back yard where I was grilling some steaks. He jumped to get a steak and went headfirst into the coals. Yes, another sad case where Rex seared its ugly head.
TEd
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