#99333
03/25/2003 3:08 PM
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from an article about the Amber Alert system for child abductions:
>There's an ancient common law principle called "hue and cry.'' When you see someone commit a crime, you're supposed to raise a hue and cry -- "Stop, thief!'' -- so bystanders will pursue the wrongdoer.<
Evidently the word hue has a different, and assumingly obsolete, semantic in the context of this old expression...what is it?
And is anyone familiar with the expression "hue and cry" itself?
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#99334
03/25/2003 3:16 PM
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Dear WO'N : I have read about its use in medieval England,
where small communities had no police, and had to be always on the alert to detect and rout wandering sneak thieves. It seems to be a duplication for emphasis, or maybe feflects origins in more than one dialect.
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#99335
03/25/2003 3:23 PM
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Hue and Cry: 1) The requirement of all members of a village to pursue a criminal with horn and voice. It is a duty of any person discovering a felony to raise the hue and cry and his neighbors are bound to assist him in pursuit and capture of the offender. (MEDIEV-L. Medieval Terms) 2) Outcry alerting others to pursue a criminal. (Bennett, Judith M. Women in the Medieval English Countryside, 234) 3) Noisy pursuit of criminals, as a legal duty falling upon local communities. (Frame, Robin. Colonial Ireland, 1169-1369, 144) 4) Criminal apprehension system by which all within earshot were required to give chase to the malefactor. (Gies, Frances and Joseph. Life in a Medieval Village, 245) A medieval glossary that I found fun to browse: http://www.netserf.org/Glossary/h.cfm
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#99336
03/25/2003 3:24 PM
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#99337
03/25/2003 5:54 PM
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addict
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addict
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Good question, WO'N. It is amazing how many phrases I use blithely, without ever having thought about the words!
So, this hue (corruption of 'hu' -tsuwm's link) has no connection at all to hue as we know it?
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#99338
03/26/2003 1:45 AM
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Oh, yes, I've heard that phrase all my life. Tsuwm's link says, in part:
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English hew and cri, partial translation of Anglo-Norman hu e cri : hu, outcry, clamor (from Old French huer, to shout, of imitative origin) + e, and + cri, cry (from Old French crier, to cry; see cry).
I don't know Old French, but I would guess the first and second persons singular conjugation would be hue. So that may be how it crept over to English; or possibly the "and" ('e') just got tacked on to the hu.
For some odd reason, my knee-jerk association with hue and cry is "fox hunt".
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#99339
03/26/2003 4:33 AM
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The current hue from Merriam-Webster's: Main Entry: hue
Pronunciation: 'hyü
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English hewe, from Old English hIw; akin to Old Norse hy plant down, Gothic hiwi form
Date: before 12th century
1 : COMPLEXION, ASPECT <political parties of every hue -- Louis Wasserman>
2 a : COLOR b : gradation of color c : the attribute of colors that permits them to be classed as red, yellow, green, blue, or an intermediate between any contiguous pair of these colors -- compare BRIGHTNESS 2, LIGHTNESS 2, SATURATION 4 Does the OED delve any further into the etymology, tsuwm? SPECIAL SIDEBAR: Gothic hiwi form: so does this mean kiwi is destined to become kewe then kue, as well?  Well...Kueland does have a certain "ring" to it!
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#99340
03/26/2003 5:00 AM
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Make mine kue coklat.
Bingley
Bingley
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#99341
03/26/2003 2:34 PM
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>Does the OED delve any further into the etymology
if you're looking for some ultimate connection between hue and hue (and cry), my judgement is "there is none". the original hue was hiw (hiew, hiwi), C9, and the original hue was hu (hui), C13.
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#99342
03/26/2003 2:37 PM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Juan, are you trying to imply that it's actually all a load of hooey? - Pfranz
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#99343
03/26/2003 3:33 PM
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if you're looking for some ultimate connection between hue and hue (and cry), my judgement is "there is none". the original hue was hiw (hiew, hiwi), C9, and the original hue was hu (hui), C13.Ah!...so there are different hues of hue. (separate and distinct, that is) Juan, are you trying to imply that it's actually all a load of hooey?
- PfranzOr, in your case...sooey!
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#99344
03/26/2003 7:46 PM
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Posts: 742
old hand
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old hand
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>are you trying to imply that it's actually all a load of hooey?
Aren't all hui a load of hooey?
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#99345
03/26/2003 10:44 PM
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Posts: 171
member
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Here in Hawaii, the word "hui" frequently appears in the papers to describe a group of people formed to accomplish some purpose, usually a business relationship (Chinese origin, I believe).
Another "hui" I recall is a Russian slang word (transliterated) for penis, as in the admonition: "Nyeh sui hui v chai" ("Don't stir your tea with your p*cker")--words I've tried to live by.
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#99346
03/27/2003 12:03 AM
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Posts: 742
old hand
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old hand
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The Hawaiian use of "hui" is probably a native Hawaiian word - in NZ Maaori, a "hui" today is a conference, or gathering convened for a specific purpose, the word "hui" meaning a gathering or a meeting.
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#99347
03/27/2003 11:57 AM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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And most huis signally fail to achieve anything of substance (in my experience) except agreement that everyone had a good time, the food was great, the beer was cold, and "let's do it again soon", leading to that distinctly NZ variant on the old expression, "a load of old hui".
- Pfranz
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#99348
04/01/2003 2:17 AM
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old hand
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old hand
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. . . so the hue in this case is Amber?
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#99349
04/01/2003 3:55 AM
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#99350
04/01/2003 7:27 AM
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Aw, shucks, Connie!  - Pfranz
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