#98834
03/16/2003 4:58 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 247
enthusiast
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Our own Faldage has been hiding his light at the end of a tunnel. Newly famed for "evaporation into mist", he left no doubt of his prowess by minting the memorable "hoist us back on course" scarcely a day later.
A mixed metaphor distinguished by images of improbable scientific or mechanical processes could be called a Faldage. It seems only fitting.
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#98835
03/16/2003 1:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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be called a Faldage
I'll have to decline this great honor, if only because one person shouldn't have more than four eponyms.
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#98836
03/16/2003 2:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Proteus proposes plurality personae
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#98837
03/16/2003 2:59 PM
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Posts: 247
enthusiast
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I'll have to decline this great honor
Very well, but it does seem a shame. Frankly, your weaving of two disparate expressions - "to hoist on one's own petard" and "staying the course" - within a single nautical theme, was quite arresting, if not altogether ingenious.
Alas, if we cannot honor our own, whom shall we honor?
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#98838
03/16/2003 8:12 PM
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Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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Dear Wordminstrel: "Hoist on one's own petrard" reminds me of an episode at the swimming hole, a small cow pond, when I was perhaps six. We were all skinny dipping. One junior petomane was blowing bubbles from both ends. A couple older boys grabbed him, and held a match to the terninus of his gasline. A blue flame shot out of and into the orifice. If it hadn't been for the two guys holding him, he would have gone into orbit, hoist on his own petard. Here's a URL, not for the fastidious: http://www.ooze.com/ooze13/petomane.html
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#98839
03/16/2003 11:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 247
enthusiast
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If it hadn't been for the two guys holding him, he would have gone into orbit
Yes, and he could have ended up in the anals of history.
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#98840
03/17/2003 12:42 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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I'll have to decline this great honor"If nominated I will not run,
If elected I will not serve!"--Pat "Faldage" Paulsen 
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#98841
03/17/2003 1:10 AM
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Posts: 13,858
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I'll have to decline this great honor
"If nominated I will not run,
If elected I will not serve!"
Calvin "Faldage" Coolidge???????????
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#98842
03/17/2003 1:46 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Lyndon "Faldage" Johnson (nee Baines)??????????
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#98843
03/17/2003 11:13 AM
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Posts: 13,803
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Calvin Coolidge
How many folks said this?
Common decency (not to mention having a delicate Atlanta girl wife) forbids me from saying who really played Jerome Kern to Pat Paulsen's George Gershwin.
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#98844
03/17/2003 12:38 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Yes, and he could have ended up in the anals of history.
Or on the bridge of the Enterprise with Jean-Luc Picquard, circling Uranus wiping out Klingons.
Sheesh.
- Pfranz
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#98845
03/17/2003 3:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
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#98846
03/18/2003 1:52 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,074 Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
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HOIST by one's...?
I believe a pet-[suffix] is a bomb, and a "petard" (Fr.) is a little one?
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#98847
03/18/2003 2:39 AM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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If there was a columnist and Faldage was his name,
He'd have meteoric, metaphoric, and a Doric fame.
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#98848
03/18/2003 5:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
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Good stuff, Jackie!  Elaborating on my earlier comment, shouldn't that phrase read as - to be hoisted 'by' one's own petard. You can't really be hoisted 'on' a petard, can you?
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#98849
03/18/2003 9:52 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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This, of course, is just the same as being run up a flagpole to see who salutes you ...
- Pfranz
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#98850
03/18/2003 2:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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I checked, and in Hamlet the phrase is hoist with his own petard. I was thinking of lauch of spacecraft, with a jet coming out of bottom.
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#98851
03/18/2003 4:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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The petard in Hamlet was a small industrial explosive device.
My fave mondegreen on it was hoist with his own poniard.
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#98852
03/18/2003 4:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
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impaled, then! 
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#98853
03/18/2003 7:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Yeah, he had it stuck to him. Or sommat.
- Pfranz
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#98854
03/18/2003 7:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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had it stuck to him.
By his own se'f.
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#98855
03/19/2003 8:02 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Came up with this:
A ‘petard,’ in medieval warfare was a metal and bell-shaped explosive charge (a crude hand grenade or mine) which took its name, oddly enough, from the French ‘peter,’ ‘to break wind.’ Daring warriors would affix to the walls or gates of a castle under siege. ...The explosive was detonated by a slow match or slow burning fuse. Occasionally, of course, the explosive went off prematurely, blowing up the man who lit it as well as the castle wall. Such a man was said to be ‘hoist’ (lifted or heaved) ‘by his own petard.’ Note that the ‘hoist’ in the passage is not the same as our modern "hoist"; it's an older form of the word, ‘hoise,’ with a participial ending that ends up as a -t (it would normally be written hoised).
It is unlikely that this archaic phrase would have persisted in our language, even in a figurative sense, had not Shakespeare conferred immortality upon it with his line from ‘Hamlet’ (~1600) when Rosencranz and Guildenstern are sent with Hamlet to England bearing orders that Hamlet be killed. Hamlet alters the orders so that they are killed instead. Hamlet then says: For 'tis the sport to have the engineer hoist with his own petard; and 't shall go hard, but I will delve one yard below their mines, and blow them at the moon. (Hamlet III.iv.206ff, spelling modernized). Today it is chiefly used to describe a person ruined by plans or devices with which he had plotted to ensnare others
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#98856
03/19/2003 1:50 PM
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613
Carpal Tunnel
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Whoa, dxb--thanks! [impressed as all get-out e] That makes it perfectly clear! Hoised...hoist. Learned...learnt. A-HA--it's you Brit-speakers' fault!
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#98857
03/20/2003 7:49 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2002
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I freely admit that I didn't understand the bit about hoist not being the same as our modern word hoist - I just quoted it hoping for a reaction. The explanation given didn't appear to create a distinction between its use then and now.
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#98858
03/20/2003 8:47 AM
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
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I think what it means is that the older hoist is the equivalent of our hoisted.
Bingley
Bingley
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#98859
03/20/2003 9:12 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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The modern word "hoist" and its usage come, I believe, from sailing terms. A "hoist" can be a set of sails ready for instant release by pulling a lanyard, or perhaps a bundle of signal flags. I expect that there is some correlation because of the fact that you would get an instant result in both cases ...
- Pfranz
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#98860
03/20/2003 11:00 AM
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803
Carpal Tunnel
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AHD3 does indeed note a relation between hoise and hoist, stating that the latter is an alteration of the dialectal former. OED pretty much agrees, differing only in that it throws the variant hoiss into the mix and calling hoist a corruption.
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#98861
03/20/2003 11:06 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
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Corruption -- ah, now we're getting into my area of real expertise!
- Pfranz
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#98862
03/20/2003 11:27 AM
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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#98863
03/21/2003 1:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,154 |
I don't in the least object to Faldage having another eponym but it seems to me that Wordminstrel is having trouble seeing the forest for the trees. "Hoist us back on course" is perfectly reasonable. It is scientifically possible to hoist, say a car back onto a race course without using a petard at all. Indeed if a petard is really a bomb and not some sort of crane as I always thought, then it is mechanically much more sound not to involve petards. Although Gonzo might not agree. 
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#98864
03/22/2003 3:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 247
enthusiast
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It is scientifically possible to hoist, say a car back onto a race course without using a petard at all. Indeed if a petard is really a bomb and not some sort of crane as I always thought, then it is mechanically much more sound not to involve petards
Agreed, Zed, so I take it you join me in celebrating this memorable "Faldage".
We can certainly agree that "hoisting" a thing "back on track" is a far more sensible thing to do than "exploding" it back on track [in a jillion pieces], but it is still a curious and inefficient way of getting a thing "back on track" [say a race car, to borrow your example].
Let us recall that a true "Faldage" enlists an image which is improbable [which accounts for its quaintness], not impossible [or self-destructive].
But, Faldage, has declined the temptations of metaphoric fame, so I think we should not draw further attention to his exuberrant talent.
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#98865
03/22/2003 5:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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"exuberant" has an interesting etymology. My dictionary says it is ultimately from Latin "uber" meaning "udder".
So if someone is "exuberant" does that mean they are having galactorrhea?
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#98866
03/22/2003 6:06 PM
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A most curious and hilarious association, wwh! And a worthy addition to the wwhean stable! Might it have been that the uber, in turn, derived metaphorically from the word for bountiful?
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#98867
03/22/2003 6:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,210
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ah, but notice wordmiz' spelling...
formerly known as etaoin...
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#98868
03/23/2003 2:23 PM
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Posts: 247
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ah, but notice wordmiz' spelling...
I have seen the error of my ways. Correction: "exuberant".
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#98869
03/23/2003 3:45 PM
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Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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"exuberrant" could mean going "all out" over a precious pectoral prominence.
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#98870
03/23/2003 4:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 247
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"exuberrant" could mean going "all out" over a precious pectoral prominence.
Or, more likely, over a wayward pelvic prominence.
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#98871
03/23/2003 5:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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The well known mons may be a Tarpeian rock.
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#98872
03/23/2003 6:56 PM
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The well known mons may be a Tarpeian rock.
A most felicitous reference, wwh, as it hoists us back on course.
It seems the Vestal Virgin Tarpeia, who was duplicitous without being proceptive, and from whom the infamous Tarpaeian rock takes its name, was hoisted with her own petard, as the tale below relates:
... the Vestal Virgin Tarpeia, who betrayed the Romans by letting the Sabines in through the gates after being promised to receive what they 'bore on their arms'. Naturally she hoped for their golden bracelets, instead she was crushed to death between their shields. Her body was buried atop the cliff, giving it its name.
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#98873
03/23/2003 8:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,858
Carpal Tunnel
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From Plutarch to plutarch:
"After the overthrow of the Ceninensians, the other Sabines still protracting the time in preparations, the people of Fidenae, Crustumerium, and Antemna joined their forces against the Romans; they in like manner were defeated in battle, and surrendered up to Romulus their cities to be seized, their lands and territories to be divided, and themselves to be transplanted to Rome. All the lands which Romulus acquired, he distributed among the citizens, except only what the parents of the stolen virgins had; these he suffered to possess their own. The rest of the Sabines, enraged hereat, choosing Tatius their captain, marched straight against Rome. The city was almost inaccessible, having for its fortress that which is now the Capitol, where a strong guard was placed, and Tarpeius their captain; not Tarpeia the virgin, as some say who would make Romulus a fool. But Tarpeia, daughter to the captain, coveting the golden bracelets she saw them wear, betrayed the fort into the Sabines' hands, and asked, in reward of her treachery, the things they wore on their left arms. Tatius conditioning thus with her, in the night she opened one of the gates, and received the Sabines. And truly Antigonus, it would seem, was not solitary in saying he loved betrayers, but hated those who had betrayed; nor Caesar, who told Rhymitalces the Thracian, that he loved the treason, but hated the traitor; but it is the general feeling of all who have occasion for wicked men's service, as people have for the poison of venomous beasts; they are glad of them while they are of use, and abhor their baseness when it is over. And so then did Tatius behave towards Tarpeia, for he commanded the Sabines, in regard to their contract, not to refuse her the least part of what they wore on their left arms; and he himself first took his bracelet off his arm, and threw that, together with his buckler, at her; and all the rest following, she, being borne down and quite buried with the multitude of gold and their shields, died under the weight and pressure of them; Tarpeius also himself, being prosecuted by Romulus, was found guilty of treason, as Juba says Sulpicius Galba relates. Those who write otherwise concerning Tarpeia, as that she was the daughter of Tatius, the Sabine captain, and being forcibly detained by Romulus, acted and suffered thus by her father's contrivance, speak very absurdly, of whom Antigonus is one. And Simylus, the poet, who thinks Tarpeia betrayed the Capitol, not to the Sabines, but the Gauls, having fallen in love with their king, talks mere folly, saying thus:-
"Tarpeia 'twas, who, dwelling close thereby,
Laid open Rome unto the enemy,
She, for the love of the besieging Gaul,
Betrayed the city's strength, the Capitol."
And a little after, speaking of her death:-
"The numerous nations of the Celtic foe
Bore her not living to the banks of Po;
Their heavy shields upon the maid they threw,
And with their splendid gifts entombed at once and slew."
Tarpeia afterwards was buried there, and the hill from her was called Tarpeius, until the reign of King Tarquin, who dedicated the place to Jupiter, at which time her bones were removed, and so it lost her name, except only that part of the Capitol which they still called the Tarpeian Rock, from which they used to cast down malefactors."
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