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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
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had it stuck to him.
By his own se'f.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692 |
Came up with this:
A ‘petard,’ in medieval warfare was a metal and bell-shaped explosive charge (a crude hand grenade or mine) which took its name, oddly enough, from the French ‘peter,’ ‘to break wind.’ Daring warriors would affix to the walls or gates of a castle under siege. ...The explosive was detonated by a slow match or slow burning fuse. Occasionally, of course, the explosive went off prematurely, blowing up the man who lit it as well as the castle wall. Such a man was said to be ‘hoist’ (lifted or heaved) ‘by his own petard.’ Note that the ‘hoist’ in the passage is not the same as our modern "hoist"; it's an older form of the word, ‘hoise,’ with a participial ending that ends up as a -t (it would normally be written hoised).
It is unlikely that this archaic phrase would have persisted in our language, even in a figurative sense, had not Shakespeare conferred immortality upon it with his line from ‘Hamlet’ (~1600) when Rosencranz and Guildenstern are sent with Hamlet to England bearing orders that Hamlet be killed. Hamlet alters the orders so that they are killed instead. Hamlet then says: For 'tis the sport to have the engineer hoist with his own petard; and 't shall go hard, but I will delve one yard below their mines, and blow them at the moon. (Hamlet III.iv.206ff, spelling modernized). Today it is chiefly used to describe a person ruined by plans or devices with which he had plotted to ensnare others
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,613 |
Whoa, dxb--thanks! [impressed as all get-out e] That makes it perfectly clear! Hoised...hoist. Learned...learnt. A-HA--it's you Brit-speakers' fault! 
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,692 |
I freely admit that I didn't understand the bit about hoist not being the same as our modern word hoist - I just quoted it hoping for a reaction. The explanation given didn't appear to create a distinction between its use then and now.
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Joined: Apr 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
I think what it means is that the older hoist is the equivalent of our hoisted.
Bingley
Bingley
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,624 |
The modern word "hoist" and its usage come, I believe, from sailing terms. A "hoist" can be a set of sails ready for instant release by pulling a lanyard, or perhaps a bundle of signal flags. I expect that there is some correlation because of the fact that you would get an instant result in both cases ...
- Pfranz
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 13,803 |
AHD3 does indeed note a relation between hoise and hoist, stating that the latter is an alteration of the dialectal former. OED pretty much agrees, differing only in that it throws the variant hoiss into the mix and calling hoist a corruption.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
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Corruption -- ah, now we're getting into my area of real expertise!
- Pfranz
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Aug 2002
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I don't in the least object to Faldage having another eponym but it seems to me that Wordminstrel is having trouble seeing the forest for the trees. "Hoist us back on course" is perfectly reasonable. It is scientifically possible to hoist, say a car back onto a race course without using a petard at all. Indeed if a petard is really a bomb and not some sort of crane as I always thought, then it is mechanically much more sound not to involve petards. Although Gonzo might not agree. 
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