|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 104
member
|
member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 104 |
Oh No! Mr O'Neill, sir, I assure you I was not attacking you for having animosity! I try not to attack people for stating their own beliefs. :) When I wrote the post, I did not even pay attention to *who* was taking Faldage to task...if I had had a problem with you specifically, I would have addressed you directly :) One thing I try to never do is Indirectly attack someone with generic comments that are obviously meant for that person alone . I'm sorry my post appeared as such!
I think my error was in using such a strong word as "animosity" What I was really trying to say is that I understood Faldage's statement one way, and I didn't understand why *that* particular way was offensive. Now, I see that you understood it another way, and you thought that way was offensive.....as would I, had I originally understood it that way, too!
Now, Who's on first, and What's on second.............. :D
(please forgive my fake smilies.....I seem unable to make use of the smilies on this board :(
Oh, and btw, thanks for pointing out the term Oriental is now considered offensive. It was in the back of my mind that there was another, perhaps better word (Asian) but I could not think of it!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819
Pooh-Bah
|
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,819 |
First of all Hans Brinker and the Silver Skates is a story about a poor kid who wins an ice skating contest on cheap skates, and his prize is a pair of silver skates. The story of the little Dutch boy who saved Holland by sticking his finger in the dyke is a different story altogether.
The fact that it is a European story is not the point. I am not arguing that only European stories should be told. My point was about the banning of the term stickball, which is a variant of baseball typically played in northeastern cities. IIRC you can see a game of stickball being played in one of the Godfather movies, for example. As a Kentuckian, stickball is pretty far from my daily life, but it never bothered me to learn about is existence. After all, nobody was shoving the idea down my throat that I was inferior because I wasn't a cracker jack stickball player. Just because something is regional doesn't mean that it is offensive.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
The story of the little Dutch boy who saved Holland by sticking his finger in the dyke is a different story altogether.
BTW, back in 1984 I adapted "The Little Dutch Boy and the Dyke" as a children's puppet-play for the Dutch-themed Spring Tulip Festival in Cape May, NJ. And I had to change the title to "The Little Dutch Boy Who Saved the Day" because "dyke" was considered offensive, from both a PC and Religious Right standpoint (sigh).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555 |
Thanks Alex! I knew I had little Hans all mixed up! Was that book titled, 'Hans Brinker or the silver skates'? Why the 'or'? Or, have I scrambled the title too?
WO'N, I cannot imagine what could possibly be wrong with dyke?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,189 |
WO'N, I cannot imagine what could possibly be wrong with dyke?
Dyke is slang and/or a disparagement for lesbian. You really never heard that, maahey?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,769 Likes: 2
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,769 Likes: 2 |
You're right, it is Hans Brinker OR the Silver Skates.
Prescriptivists of the world,unite!
I too learned it as "Hans Brinker AND the Silver Skates."
If you google you find all varieties!
HB and the SS
HB or the SS
HB, or the SS
HB/SS
barnesandnoble.com sells books by same author, both titles (and/or), take your pick.
Now I don't know whom to believe any more! I think I'll stick with what I know I know is so.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065
Carpal Tunnel
|
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,065 |
Before I started reading this thread I don't think I had ever heard of Hans Brinker, but I had certainly heard of Scherazade, Sinbad, etc.
But generally speaking I'm a lot more familiar with stories from my own culture and the cultures it derives from than am I with those from other cultures. What's wrong with that? I don't expect Indonesians who've never travelled to necessarily be familiar with the stories I remember from my childhood, why expect people from back home who've never travelled to be familiar with stories from places where they've never been?
Bingley
Bingley
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555
addict
|
|
addict
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 555 |
All this is that Alex's fault! He brought up Hans Brinker, he did!!  I extrapolated that to Faldage's thought and look where we are now! I think it has more to do with education, Bingley; I don't know that travelling has much to do with it. Unless one has travelled a lot as a child and has therefore been exposed to different educational systems. Folklore, mythology, short stories from here and there, are mandatory reading for all school going children. The question was, do children read enough about cultures from other lands? Faldage said something about some races doing the considering for others (not wrt scholastic learnings). That is true and only because in recent history, these same races have colonised more lands and have therefore spread their stories and culture far and wide. I agreed largely with everything Alex said too. Hans Brinker as an example, however provoked a smile and a very tongue in cheek comment, because I personally don't believe that there is a lot of difference between these two groups. Certainly, comparatively, it is somewhat on the lower rungs of the scale of cultural difference. The Dutch were colonisers too and automatically fell into the group that was doing the considering. I have a strong cross cultural experience. I used to say that I am a Brit by every standard except race (Indian). I dont know that I can say that anymore. But obviously, there is nothing wrong with reading about one's own culture and folklore. There is certainly nothing wrong with knowing more about it either. I was saying quite the opposite. It is one of my beliefs that, it will help us to understand one another more, if, as children, we were exposed to other cultures and traditions in a broader sense. There is a tremendous exposure to the culture, ideology, folklore, mythologies of other civilizations in Indian schools. It never fails to amaze me, how much those children are exposed to. Certainly, this is yet another Raj hangover. How many (and I do so hope that there are many)on this board know about the Mahabharatha or the Panchatantra, or the Arabian nights? That, was what I was refering to. Currently, the cultural exchange is rather unidirectional (W-E). But this is all history in the making and the wheel constantly spins and turns. And, so, while it is important to make reparations for some of the gross errors of history, it is practically impossible to iron all the wrinkles out. Rather than language police (who will and should inevitably fail) it might be more prudent to have policy police, eh? I heartily agree too, with your earlier comment on the mising word 'only', wrt the article.
|
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics13,913
Posts229,670
Members9,187
| |
Most Online3,341
Dec 9th, 2011
|
|
|
0 members (),
149
guests, and
43
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
And I really was "just pointing out" the Oriental thing to you, the jury seems to be out on whether it's actually offensive or not, and a lot of Asian/Orientals don't have a problem with it at all and actually prefer it...but there's a long discussion on this here, I'll try to find the link (unless somebody beats me to it).
